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Big shift last night to more of a point forward role for Zion, 2 man game with JJ

Posted on 2/4/21 at 10:19 am
Posted by Fun Bunch
New Orleans
Member since May 2008
115440 posts
Posted on 2/4/21 at 10:19 am
I know everyone noticed, but to me, there seemed to be a big, big shift last night towards getting the Zion the ball in the full court so that he could initiate action.

He was taking the ball up the floor, and being the focal point of the offense. This was manifested in the 2 man game he and JJ were playing for a short stretch, which was actually really smart and great basketball.

We've seen him do it before, but I feel like last night was a shift and a really concerted effort to play him more of a Point Forward role so that he gets the ball early and the play goes through him more.

It was awesome.
Posted by J_Hingle
LA
Member since Jun 2013
5095 posts
Posted on 2/4/21 at 10:23 am to
This is what will bring Zion to the next level. If he is to be considered an MVP type player and this team a contender, this part of his game has to continue and continue to grow. It was refreshing to see. Also, it almost seemed like it simplified things a little. Spread the floor, drive, then finish or kick it out. Simple basketball
This post was edited on 2/4/21 at 10:24 am
Posted by TechTiger
Running an easy 10
Member since Feb 2007
1348 posts
Posted on 2/4/21 at 10:27 am to
It really gets the most out of him in this role. If he’s going to be on the court and be a non-shooter, then there needs to be an expanded role for him so teams don’t pack the paint waiting for him to receive the ball.

It could even help him start developing more of an outside game if he’s already starting with the ball outside the arc.
Posted by GOP_Tiger
Baton Rouge
Member since Jan 2005
17785 posts
Posted on 2/4/21 at 10:31 am to
In the past, when we've put the ball in Zion's hands to initiate the offense, he's committed a lot of turnovers. That didn't happen last night, and it really feels like the game is beginning to slow down a little for Zion on both ends of the court.

This is Zion 2.0 -- can't wait to see what future updates look like.
Posted by SaintTigerPel
LaPlace
Member since Dec 2017
904 posts
Posted on 2/4/21 at 10:37 am to
The Zion is ready
Posted by Chad504boy
4 posts
Member since Feb 2005
166135 posts
Posted on 2/4/21 at 11:22 am to
i still want Zion to trim down. He's packing a heavy arse punch.
Posted by TechTiger
Running an easy 10
Member since Feb 2007
1348 posts
Posted on 2/4/21 at 11:33 am to
quote:

i still want Zion to trim down. He's packing a heavy arse punch.


A svelte 270ish explosive Zion at the Point could start dominating even more than he does now. It would bigger defenders to check him at the top of the key, and allow cutting lanes to open up.
Posted by Bronc
Member since Sep 2018
12646 posts
Posted on 2/4/21 at 11:48 am to
quote:

This is what will bring Zion to the next level. If he is to be considered an MVP type player and this team a contender, this part of his game has to continue and continue to grow. It was refreshing to see. Also, it almost seemed like it simplified things a little. Spread the floor, drive, then finish or kick it out. Simple basketball


It will continue to grow. People just need to be patient.

Lots of hollering and doom posting over the last couple weeks and months because people want Zion final form day one when the reality is he has always on a longer development trajectory(as are pretty much all players).

His ceiling is still best in the league, historical great, and we see slivers with the offense opening up and Zion developing down this unicorn path scouts saw for him for why that remains the case.

I’m sure he’ll have more set backs, rough patches, and certain things will take longer than others to develop, but with realistic expectations, Zion’s early career journey has been very fun to watch.

Posted by Bronc
Member since Sep 2018
12646 posts
Posted on 2/4/21 at 11:53 am to
quote:

A svelte 270ish explosive Zion at the Point could start dominating even more than he does now.


Zion and BI both slowly developing into point forwards is just another reason why I think someone like Ball just doesn’t work here.

The 2-3 year plan with BI/Zion has to be both of them running 50-75% of the offensive possessions. It’s where both of them project at their best, and a Zion/Ingram pick and roll with shooters and one more play making guard(hopefully Kira) next to them would be an unguardable set.

Posted by Fun Bunch
New Orleans
Member since May 2008
115440 posts
Posted on 2/4/21 at 11:55 am to
Its partially why I was so perplexed with the roster construction this offseason and the drafting so far.

BI and Zion need guys that can shoot surrounding them. Adams is fine because he rebounds, sets screens, and plays defense at such a high level.

But the two guards (or wing if BI is at 2) need to be guys that can shoot.
Posted by shel311
McKinney, Texas
Member since Aug 2004
110661 posts
Posted on 2/4/21 at 11:58 am to
quote:

A svelte 270ish explosive Zion at the Point could start dominating even more than he does now
Thinking super duper long term, this would be helpful too.

Obviously who knows where Zion will be when he's 30 and whether he'll still be here, but that weight flying that high on them knees. He's already super human so ya never know, but it seems like knee problems wayyyyy down the road are almost a given at this point.

Could be a bad assumption on my part, we've never seen a dude built like this that is athletic like this, so I guess who knows really what it all means.
Posted by Bronc
Member since Sep 2018
12646 posts
Posted on 2/4/21 at 12:01 pm to
Yeah, for me personally, I still think the ideal big for Zion is someone in the mold of Myles Turner/Vucevic/Ibaka/Lopez/Porzingas, but Adams is workable IF you have good to great shooters at guard.

I’m hoping we can find one of those guys in the draft and hopefully Kira can be the other one.
Posted by Albino Potato
Member since Jan 2016
808 posts
Posted on 2/4/21 at 12:01 pm to
Ingram was doing the point forward told mostly. Which is what I want with Lonzo on offense in the half court. Since he doesn’t attack the rim, he can be effective on catch and shoot 3s. But when he has the ball he’s not creating enough.
Posted by ThanosIsADemocrat
The Garden
Member since May 2018
9395 posts
Posted on 2/4/21 at 12:16 pm to
Phoenix era Barkley ran a lot of the offense from the top.

When Paul wasn’t being an ego maniac or injured, Griffin running plays in LAC. Or even 2 years ago in Detroit.

Zion creating shots unlocks the team, & makes us playoff contenders right now, provided ample shooting.
Posted by kellyboy23
Member since Dec 2019
298 posts
Posted on 2/4/21 at 12:22 pm to
quote:

Thinking super duper long term, this would be helpful too.

Obviously who knows where Zion will be when he's 30 and whether he'll still be here, but that weight flying that high on them knees. He's already super human so ya never know, but it seems like knee problems wayyyyy down the road are almost a given at this point.

Could be a bad assumption on my part, we've never seen a dude built like this that is athletic like this, so I guess who knows really what it all means.


In my opinion, Charles Barkley is a good example of the physical transition of Zion as he ages.
Posted by Bronc
Member since Sep 2018
12646 posts
Posted on 2/4/21 at 12:32 pm to
quote:

When Paul wasn’t being an ego maniac or injured, Griffin running plays in LAC. Or even 2 years ago in Detroit.


I always wanted to see full time point Griffin during his peak(or I guess more like before accumulated injuries totally ravaged him). But with CP3 on your team that just wasn’t ever really gonna happen.

And I actually think Point Zion is a good way of preserving Zion’s body long term, interestingly enough. I just think it allows him to not just unlock a more diverse game, but lessens the frequency of him ending up in some of the more risky situations bigs like him find themselves in when they are playing off the ball and above the rim fairly frequently.

Cutting down the frequency of those risks playing above the rim while reliant on other people to keep you safe, putting more of the control into his hands of when he chooses to take those risks, while simultaneously making him a more diverse player, feels like a win win long term.
This post was edited on 2/4/21 at 12:33 pm
Posted by SammyTiger
Baton Rouge, LA
Member since Feb 2009
66344 posts
Posted on 2/4/21 at 12:46 pm to
quote:

Zion and BI both slowly developing into point forwards is just another reason why I think someone like Ball just doesn’t work here.



When Ball shoots the three like he did past night he has a place. 3rd ball handler. D and 3 guy.

The problem of course is consistency.
Posted by TeddyPadillac
Member since Dec 2010
25444 posts
Posted on 2/4/21 at 12:50 pm to
quote:

The problem of course is consistency.



and we've seen enough to know he's consistently inconsistent.


It still irritates me when he shoots "cool". He's so worried about how he looks when he shoots. when he sets his feet and follows through correctly, he's a really good shooter, but he's proven he's incapable of doing this regularly b/c he will inevitably have moments where he thinks he's in an And1 video.
Posted by Fun Bunch
New Orleans
Member since May 2008
115440 posts
Posted on 2/8/21 at 1:01 pm to
Kevin O'Connor had a blurb on this in his Ringer article today regarding his league rankings:

quote:

Pelicans head coach Stan Van Gundy has changed how he’s utilizing Zion. He’s now having him bring the ball up the court and run pick-and-rolls as a ball handler more than before. In the past six games, Williamson has been the pick-and-roll ball handler 4.5 times per game, more than double the 1.8 pick-and-rolls he averaged through the first 15 games, per Synergy Sports.

The Pelicans often have a smaller guy screen for him, and then that player pops for a 3-pointer. Williamson has a good feel for whether to deliver them the pass or attack the defense and force help toward the paint, which creates space for spot-up shooters. Zion’s playmaking numbers have risen accordingly; he averaged 1.9 assists and 2.5 turnovers through his first 15 games this season, but in the past six contests he’s averaging 4.8 assists and 2.6 turnovers.

“Zion is so physically overwhelming in the paint that people just think he’s a freak-of-nature power forward, and that’s all he is,” Pelicans front office boss David Griffin told me for a story on the Pelicans late last month. “But he played point guard basically his entire life before he got to Duke. His stepfather raised him with the ball in his hand to make decisions like a point guard. He measures himself by his ability to make people better. This isn’t a kid who grew up putting himself on the post, trying to learn the Dream Shake. This was the guy who wanted to be a facilitating playmaker with the ball in his hands facing the basket.”

Williamson is tapping in to the next level of his offensive potential, and he’s playing with better defensive effort than before. Van Gundy can be a difficult coach to play for, but so far Williamson is responding to what’s being asked of him. Don’t let the fact the Pelicans are only 10-12 fool you into thinking Williamson isn’t one of the game’s most special players.
Posted by GOP_Tiger
Baton Rouge
Member since Jan 2005
17785 posts
Posted on 2/8/21 at 2:45 pm to
It's interesting that the article portrays the shift as Zion's assist to turnover improving as a result of his handling the ball more and running P&Rs, but I kinda got the impression that it was more of the other way around: that SVG decided to trust him to handle the ball more after he cut down on the turnovers.

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