re: tOfficial Better Call Saul S06E06 “Axe and Grind” Thread

Yeah, i'm starting to think Vince isn't going to nail the landing here. Perhaps it's time for some people to stop with the BCS > BB claims we've heard in the past. BCS has had some great moments but some head scratchers like the Lalo scene mentioned and the monotonous legal drama stuff. Kim's motivation is entirely murky as well at this point. I wanted to learn about Saul, and we are learning a lot about a character (Kim) never even mentioned in BB.

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Just finished a complete rewatch. She liked to dabble in the scams, but she definitely wasn't breaking bad like she has been the last half season or so.

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I think one of the themes they’ve explored in both shows is that there’s really no such thing as “breaking bad.” People are who they are. Walt always had Heisenberg in him, Jimmy always had Saul in him, and Kim always had “Slippin’ Kimmy” in her. It just takes certain life experiences to peel back a layer and reveal what’s always been there at some level, even if dormant.

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The flashbacks to kid Kim with her mom feel like bad retcons to me.

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I disagree, but I can certainly understand that viewpoint. But the whole show has been a retcon basically. They were creating a backstory to Saul which they didn’t have, so just by the nature of the prequel, there’s no other way to do it except retconning it. I think we’ve kinda taken for granted just how hard this whole concept has been, mainly because everybody working on it is at the top of their respective crafts.

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Yeah, i'm starting to think Vince isn't going to nail the landing here.

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I think people are way overestimating how just how involved Vince is in this show. Especially at this point. This show is Peter Gould’s baby, and the writers are given a ton of freedom. Vince ran the writer’s room for the 1st couple of seasons, but I’m not sure if he even does that anymore. He’s not even on set unless he’s directing the episode. He’s in the writer’s room—and since this universe is his creation, I’m sure all the big things have to be run by him, including the direction to the finish—but they “break” the seasons, “break” the episodes, then he leaves it up to the writers, directors, editors to stick the landings. Listen to the insider’s podcast. It’s him, PG, and the hosts (2 editors, 1 current and one who left after season 3), and the writer and director of each episode. He’s constantly asking questions and is amazed at how they did certain things. It was his idea for the toilet to be in Jimmy’s office based on a true story of his friend renting a place. But beyond stuff like that, I think he’s pretty hands off on the minutia. He trusts these people because they’ve proven to be fantastic.

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I wanted to learn about Saul, and we are learning a lot about a character (Kim) never even mentioned in BB.

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I don’t get this criticism. Have we not learned a shite ton about Saul? And Saul didn’t appear until the 8th episode of the 2nd season of Breaking Bad. Nobody cared to learn about him then. But the character grew more interesting (thanks to good writing, but probably more Odenkirk’s acting), and we wanted to learn more. The same thing has happened with Kim. They didn’t know what they had in the character or actor at the time, but she’s become much more interesting over the seasons. We know how Jimmy turns out. I’m fascinated to see how Kim does.

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disagree. nothing in BCS is really a retcon of BB so far. retcon would be things in BCS that retroactively reshape events in BB. this hasn't happened (yet and hopefully doesnt). hashing out saul's origin story isnt a retcon because it doesnt change anything about BB.

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I don’t think we really disagree. It’s more semantics than anything. I agree that there are certain things, that if shoehorned, would feel cheap and damage the BB legacy. But there’s no way we can watch BB exactly the same after having seen BCS. Like Mike—it’s gonna be hard to watch the bad things he does in BB without remembering the whole “I broke my boy” monologue. It’s added a humanity to him and will make his death and not being able to get the money to Kaleigh all the more tragic. But I’m thinking it supplements it, makes it richer. But yeah, there are some things they could do that would frick it up. That’s why this whole project was so scary/brave. If they don’t nail it, they open themselves up to screwing up BB. Which is why I don’t think they’ll do that. I said I don’t think Vince is as involved with the day-to-day, but he’s gonna be very protective of what will be his masterpiece in BB and won’t let them frick it up.

Agree with all that. And frick George Lucas.

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It was his idea for the toilet to be in Jimmy’s office based on a true story of his friend renting a place.

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Toilet in the office in one episode. Drunk urinating is his water feature the next. Just put those two together. Hilarious.

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we're going in a circle at this point. obviously it started when she was a kid. You might have missed it, but I started going back down Kim's path to figure out if she's always worn the stolen earrings. I don't think she did & I believe (I have not gone back to check) she probably started wearing them sometime in S02. The idea of "going bad" started for her with the scamming with Jimmy, the ISZA check, & leaving HHM. It's been a slow build up to the end of S05 & now the u-turn for d-day.

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When they started the scene, I was expecting that her stealing the earrings was going to turn out to be part of some kind of scam she was running with her mom, which would have given her a precedent for what she's been doing with Jimmy.

I didn’t put the two scenes together, but now that you point it out, hilarious.

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Kim and her motivations are completely different now than they have been for 90% of the show and it feels forced

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I keep feeling like I missed something in the early seasons….

They've shown an El Camino sign 3-5 times this season. I took that as an invitation to rewatch knowing what we know now.

I wasn't a fan of El Camino and had only watched twice when it first came out.

There's a nuclear bomb Easter Egg in there, but I'm tired of spoon feeding people.

Just keep your thumb on the pause button. Let's see if you guys respond better to the Socratic method.