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Man in the High Castle - Season 4 - spoilers
Posted on 12/3/19 at 9:07 am
Posted on 12/3/19 at 9:07 am
Yes there is another thread on this, but it is not listed as spoilers and do not want to ruin it for someone. Although there are spoilers in it.
https://www.tigerdroppings.com/rant/movie-tv/the-man-in-the-high-castle/86703428/
Just finished it up last night. Good and Bad
Good
1. Season 4 was worth the watch and to wrap up the series.
2. The scenes and detail are top notch to actually feel what it would be like be in Nazi America
3. The flashbacks were a great add to see how the USA actually became Nazis. Especially Smiths.
Bad
1. Not having Trade Minister Tagomi was the single largest flaw. He was such a central character and a moral compass for the show. Have not looked up why he did not return (by writing design or pay dispute), but it was a huge missing piece that killed the Japanese arc. Bringing in General Yamori as the leader really set it back as well
2. Building on missing Tagomi. Kido still remained and was solid though the season, however it went south from there. His son's introduction was just a big dang distraction and there was no connection. Kido did not need to deal with a son with PTSD story.
3. BCR - In theory it fit within the Universe, however this was pure WTF storytelling. They needed to drop them in earlier seasons. This felt like a focus group said we need more Africans to Amazon and they re-did the last season to make the happy. It was Wakanda forever. There was a story to tell from the black population side, but Amazon ignored it for 3 seasons and then went boom Black Panther in the last season. The execution of the sabotage was a legit good angle, just amazing not a single non-black person was needed.
4. How were the Nazis going to invade another dimension through that little portal. This one thing that was bugging me from last season. The only threatening thing they could do is get a nuclear device through it, but they are not rolling tanks and planes through it. All they could do is bring nuclear bombs. They could not even move troops through, since you mirror had to be dead.
5. The ending - Was a cluster and they had no idea how to wrap it up. You are just left with your thoughts on what it meant.
https://www.tigerdroppings.com/rant/movie-tv/the-man-in-the-high-castle/86703428/
Just finished it up last night. Good and Bad
Good
1. Season 4 was worth the watch and to wrap up the series.
2. The scenes and detail are top notch to actually feel what it would be like be in Nazi America
3. The flashbacks were a great add to see how the USA actually became Nazis. Especially Smiths.
Bad
1. Not having Trade Minister Tagomi was the single largest flaw. He was such a central character and a moral compass for the show. Have not looked up why he did not return (by writing design or pay dispute), but it was a huge missing piece that killed the Japanese arc. Bringing in General Yamori as the leader really set it back as well
2. Building on missing Tagomi. Kido still remained and was solid though the season, however it went south from there. His son's introduction was just a big dang distraction and there was no connection. Kido did not need to deal with a son with PTSD story.
3. BCR - In theory it fit within the Universe, however this was pure WTF storytelling. They needed to drop them in earlier seasons. This felt like a focus group said we need more Africans to Amazon and they re-did the last season to make the happy. It was Wakanda forever. There was a story to tell from the black population side, but Amazon ignored it for 3 seasons and then went boom Black Panther in the last season. The execution of the sabotage was a legit good angle, just amazing not a single non-black person was needed.
4. How were the Nazis going to invade another dimension through that little portal. This one thing that was bugging me from last season. The only threatening thing they could do is get a nuclear device through it, but they are not rolling tanks and planes through it. All they could do is bring nuclear bombs. They could not even move troops through, since you mirror had to be dead.
5. The ending - Was a cluster and they had no idea how to wrap it up. You are just left with your thoughts on what it meant.
8
Posted on 12/3/19 at 10:41 am to DarthRebel
After watching season 4, I think they should have found a way to end it in season 3.
Losing Tagomi was by far the worst. It had to be a contract dispute because they went out of their way to not show his face. The only bright side is it gave Chief Inspector Kido something to do this season.
It may just be me, but I saw Smith on a bit of a redemption arc during the series. Slowly realizing how horrible the Nazi regime is. But then he pulls a Jaime Lannister and goes back to his old ways with Holocaust 3.0.
Losing Tagomi was by far the worst. It had to be a contract dispute because they went out of their way to not show his face. The only bright side is it gave Chief Inspector Kido something to do this season.
It may just be me, but I saw Smith on a bit of a redemption arc during the series. Slowly realizing how horrible the Nazi regime is. But then he pulls a Jaime Lannister and goes back to his old ways with Holocaust 3.0.
Posted on 12/3/19 at 12:03 pm to Esquire
quote:
It may just be me, but I saw Smith on a bit of a redemption arc during the series.
It was very Lannister. 99% of the series was a slow redemption arc and then poof he goes final solution in the last episode.
I think they missed out with a American reunification episode.
Also a little pissed at the USA flag disrespect with the BCR. While the BCR had a possible valid point to it, it is a shame they missed using it somewhere. That scene really felt like it was added for real world SJW justification.
Posted on 12/3/19 at 12:29 pm to DarthRebel
Introducing racist communists as such central characters was jarring to say the least. 8 skipped over all of their scenes, which was like 30% of every episode, and the show was much better. Was I supposed to be happy that the west coast was going to be run by Afro-centric commies? The Japs would have been a better option. It's like the creators knew enough about history to recognize that the Nazis were bad guys, but somehow believed communism was okay.
Posted on 12/3/19 at 12:58 pm to Shiftyplus1
quote:
It's like the creators knew enough about history to recognize that the Nazis were bad guys, but somehow believed communism was okay.
So true.
A funny scene was when the 2 BCR leaders were in bed together in the last episode. She was talking about what a nice bed and room this was and then he starts talking about how many comrades they can fit in here to live. Such a communist move.
I am pretty sure in this alt-timeline, space for people is not an issue to need to cram multiple people into rooms.
In 1940 the USA population was 132 million. Over 50% less than now. Then subtract the millions killed during the nuking, occupation and racial cleansing of North America. Then remove all the Japanese citizens. At this point you will have more homes than people.
I also laughed at the defense of San Francisco force. Pretty sure before the invasion was called off, it was made up of - BCR, Jews and Gays. Even in an alt-timeline gays flock to San Fran
Posted on 12/3/19 at 1:04 pm to Shiftyplus1
Hollywood thinks Black Communists are heroes, so I guess it isn't a surprise. Wet dream for them.
That whole shoehorned in plot PISSED me off.
It was absurd and terrible. AWFUL final season. I'm actually mad about it.
That whole shoehorned in plot PISSED me off.
It was absurd and terrible. AWFUL final season. I'm actually mad about it.
Posted on 12/3/19 at 1:16 pm to DarthRebel
BCR and missing Tagomi were the biggest reasons this season was not nearly as good as it could have been.
I actually enjoyed Juliana more in this season than previous ones some how.
I actually enjoyed Juliana more in this season than previous ones some how.
Posted on 12/3/19 at 1:19 pm to someLSUdoosh
quote:
I actually enjoyed Juliana more in this season than previous ones some how.
I agree with this. It might be because there seemed to be less of her. The weird meditation scenes were cheesy though.
Posted on 12/3/19 at 1:37 pm to DarthRebel
quote:
Also a little pissed at the USA flag disrespect with the BCR. While the BCR had a possible valid point to it, it is a shame they missed using it somewhere.
Blacks in this world had always been second or third class citizens and then they were killed by American Nazi's. They had a very valid point to not want the flag. Also using the flag would have been way to rah rah USA USA, which didn't fit in this world.
It seems like there was a bigger BCR storyline that hitting the cutting room floor in other seasons and then they realized it had been smashed into the final season.
This post was edited on 12/3/19 at 1:40 pm
Posted on 12/3/19 at 1:44 pm to DarthRebel
John's wife in the last episode asking him to stop what hes doing, and he says "I dont know how."
It's easy. You rule North America. Just say stop. John starting another holocaust was completely unbelievable. After seeing his Jewish friend in the parallel world and having panic attacks over it, he just immediately puts in motion Holocaust 2.0? His second even told him how to take back America and stop being Nazis, and he said "Nah."
And are all of that worlds dead coming back through that portal? They are in a small cave in the middle of nowhere in the dead of winter. Introduce a steady stream of millions of people with no way to feed, house, or move them, and all you're gonna get is a bunch of dead people.
It's easy. You rule North America. Just say stop. John starting another holocaust was completely unbelievable. After seeing his Jewish friend in the parallel world and having panic attacks over it, he just immediately puts in motion Holocaust 2.0? His second even told him how to take back America and stop being Nazis, and he said "Nah."
And are all of that worlds dead coming back through that portal? They are in a small cave in the middle of nowhere in the dead of winter. Introduce a steady stream of millions of people with no way to feed, house, or move them, and all you're gonna get is a bunch of dead people.
Posted on 12/3/19 at 3:41 pm to DarthRebel
quote:
I also laughed at the defense of San Francisco force. Pretty sure before the invasion was called off, it was made up of - BCR, Jews and Gays. Even in an alt-timeline gays flock to San Fran
Or how about, you know, literally the people the Nazi's were attempting to exterminate
You dumb.
Posted on 12/3/19 at 6:11 pm to Haydo
quote:
Or how about, you know, literally the people the Nazi's were attempting to exterminate
You dumb.
Did you watch the show or are you just being an arse?
In the first 3 seasons, San Francisco is populated by Japanese and Whitey. There were some Jew and gay story arc, but it was 98% Japs and boring straight whites.
In the end though, the straight white people have become lynching Southerners and the great city of San Fran is being defended by BCR, Jews and Gays.
Posted on 12/3/19 at 8:25 pm to DarthRebel
The BCR shouldve been introduced in the 1st season then gradually grew in strength.
John Smith shouldve had a change of heart but been killed anyway or better yet killed himself over remorse for what he had become.
How they wasted his character development, i dont know. You can tell he always had second thoughts especially after seeing his Jewish friend again.
Im still trying to figure out why so many USArmy etc became nazis instead of fleeing to the neutral zone etc
John Smith shouldve had a change of heart but been killed anyway or better yet killed himself over remorse for what he had become.
How they wasted his character development, i dont know. You can tell he always had second thoughts especially after seeing his Jewish friend again.
Im still trying to figure out why so many USArmy etc became nazis instead of fleeing to the neutral zone etc
This post was edited on 12/3/19 at 8:28 pm
Posted on 12/3/19 at 10:42 pm to stateofplay
quote:
Im still trying to figure out why so many USArmy etc became nazis instead of fleeing to the neutral zone etc
It seemed like the options were run and eventually get killed or be a Nazi and get food etc for your family. Remember the Allies were never winning the war in this world. The Nazis put foot back on the shelves and restored society.
I had a hard buying the BCR just showing up and suddenly making enough noise to make the Japanese leave.
Can we get a Kido yakuza spin-off series?
This post was edited on 12/3/19 at 10:46 pm
Posted on 12/4/19 at 1:40 am to DarthRebel
TBF, one of the first characters in the first episode we are introduced to is gay. DJ Qualls' character.
Posted on 12/4/19 at 5:50 am to DarthRebel
The writing for season 4 was a steaming pile of poo. Just rushed and not credible even for an alternate universe, and huge wastes of time on uninteresting story lines. It's too bad, season 2 was very good and the series showed a lot of promise at that point.
Posted on 12/4/19 at 7:50 am to Shiftyplus1
quote:
TBF, one of the first characters in the first episode we are introduced to is gay. DJ Qualls' character.
That is what I mentioned in the next post. They had Frank (Jew) and Ed (gay) story arcs. Each had a small supporting group (Jew and gay) actors to move those stories along.
Frank started out a Jew from season 1. They built up Ed for 2 seasons and tossed in the gay in season 3 (which seemed out of place, but inclusivity).
Those stories existed, but at the end it was characters we knew nothing about with identity politics placed in there for no reason but to check off boxes.
Shitty writing, is shitty writing.
Posted on 1/5/20 at 9:28 pm to DarthRebel
Has a show with that good of a first season had that poor of a final season.
Just WTF all over the place.
Tagomi was a massive loss.
Just WTF all over the place.
Tagomi was a massive loss.
This post was edited on 1/5/20 at 9:29 pm
Posted on 1/5/20 at 10:37 pm to Freauxzen
quote:
Has a show with that good of a first season had that poor of a final season.
Where were you in summer of 2019?
Posted on 2/11/20 at 4:21 pm to DarthRebel
I just finished the season and agree with most on here. THE BCR would've been a fine story if it didn't get brought up out of nowhere in the last season. Also, I couldn't stand the Bell character. When she was giving the rah rah speech as they loaded the boxes with explosives, I thought it was ridiculous. They also had pretty much no dilemmas the entire season. They were largely successful in everything that they did. I think the story could've been progressed further if they expanded on members of the BCR living lavishly after their success and going against their ideals. I also got a kick out of them aiming their AKs into the sky to somehow deter high flying bombers at the end.
Also, the timing of the hostile takeover of the Nazis by Smith and Goetzer(sp?) made no sense from a storytelling perspective. If that had happened in season 3 and allowed an entire season for that story to grow, then I get it. Instead, Smith takes over as leader of America, and an episode later he's still doing what he would've been doing as Reischmarshall; going to the Poconos. I understand that the takeover had to happen in order for Smith getting killed to set up the end of the Nazis, but it was so rushed.
Lastly, I've read that the random people filing in through the portal was supposed to be vague, but it doesn't make it any better. All of these random people are about to walk into an America that is about to experience some extreme turmoil as the Nazi regime falls apart. Maybe, they were better off wherever they were.
Having said all that, I still, somehow, really enjoyed the last season.
Also, the timing of the hostile takeover of the Nazis by Smith and Goetzer(sp?) made no sense from a storytelling perspective. If that had happened in season 3 and allowed an entire season for that story to grow, then I get it. Instead, Smith takes over as leader of America, and an episode later he's still doing what he would've been doing as Reischmarshall; going to the Poconos. I understand that the takeover had to happen in order for Smith getting killed to set up the end of the Nazis, but it was so rushed.
Lastly, I've read that the random people filing in through the portal was supposed to be vague, but it doesn't make it any better. All of these random people are about to walk into an America that is about to experience some extreme turmoil as the Nazi regime falls apart. Maybe, they were better off wherever they were.
Having said all that, I still, somehow, really enjoyed the last season.
This post was edited on 2/11/20 at 4:23 pm
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