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Jack Ruby
Memphis Fan
Member since Apr 2014
12620 posts

Laundry list of LOTR questions
I am by no means a Tolkein expert, but I have read much of the Silmarillion and I know the legends well enough to know pretty much what the characters are talking about when they say stuff like "I am a keeper of the secret fire of Anor" and "beast of Morgoth" and "you're one of the Dunedain" and Valinor and most of the ancient legends shite.

But I'm still baffled by a few observatuons upon a recent rewatch of the extended versions of the films.

Like...



Why did no one know Moria had been sacked? The dead bodies look like they've been there for 30 years and skeltonized.



Why were goblins still occupying the caves if a fricking Balrog was roaming the hallways.



How did Gollum get across the bridge a Khazad Dume when it was broken by Gandalf?



Why werent the Urak-hai created before and why the hell are they growing in some earth pod.



Why did Sauromon turn so quickly? Did he honestly think he could co-exist or defeat Sauron?


How did the Witch King beat Gandalf so easily? He's not even an angelic being like Sarumon, Sauron, the Balrogs and others, yet broke his staff. And speaking of the staff, why the wizards sometimes seem powerless without them and then sometimes don't seem to need them at all.


And lastsly, what the hell did the one ring actually do besides cloud men's minds? Is that it? And why did Sauron wear it? Did it make him physically any stronger? He is the same being as the wizards, but he was seemingly far more powerful? Is that all because of the ring?








TygerTyger
LSU Fan
Houston
Member since Oct 2010
6866 posts

re: Laundry list of LOTR questions
Why did no one know Moria had been sacked? The dead bodies look like they've been there for 30 years and skeltonized.

- Moria had been under the control of orcs and goblins for a long time. Balin had taken a contingent of dwarves to take it back. It wasn't like people came and went there like it was the Mall.



Why were goblins still occupying the caves if a fricking Balrog was roaming the hallways.

- They were in the service of the Balrog, an alliance even.

How did Gollum get across the bridge a Khazad Dume when it was broken by Gandalf?

- There's more than one way through the deeps of Middle Earth for a creature like Gollum.

Why werent the Urak-hai created before and why the hell are they growing in some earth pod.

- Saruman, their creator, was originally good. But in using the Palantir he saw the might of Sauron and was corrupted to believe that there was no hope for the good people of Middle Earth. He despaired and then decided to make a deal with Sauron.

Why did Sauromon turn so quickly? Did he honestly think he could co-exist or defeat Sauron?

-See above

How did the Witch King beat Gandalf so easily? He's not even an angelic being like Sarumon, Sauron, the Balrogs and others, yet broke his staff. And speaking of the staff, why the wizards sometimes seem powerless without them and then sometimes don't seem to need them at all.

- In the novels he didn't.

And lastsly, what the hell did the one ring actually do besides cloud men's minds? Is that it? And why did Sauron wear it? Did it make him physically any stronger? He is the same being as the wizards, but he was seemingly far more powerful? Is that all because of the ring?

- Imagine the power of an evil god, like Satan let's say. Now imagine all that power infused in to a ring that is almost sentient in its own right. The full power of the ring was never really shown, but if Melkor was the baddest of the adasses, and Sauron was his right hand man, then you can imagine how powerful the ring was.
This post was edited on 1/12 at 7:46 pm


Larry
LSU Fan
Collierville, TN
Member since Jul 2004
5085 posts
 Online 

re: Laundry list of LOTR questions
I’ve never seen a thread on this site resolved so quickly.


JohnnyBgood
LSU Fan
South Louisiana
Member since May 2010
3461 posts

re: Laundry list of LOTR questions
I’ll give you my take based from years of reading and researching Tolkien’s works. A lot of information has been changed and edited over the years, especially from Chris Tolkien.

1. No one heard from Balin and his party after they attempted to reclaim it after the events of the Hobbit. Gimli made a bad assumption that they were alive and well with a reclaim to Khazad-Dum.

2. Goblins/Orcs were servants to the Durin’s Bane, The Balrog, but obviously scared to death of it when it was pissed off.

3. Gollum had lived and survived in mountains for 500 years.....he learned a few things about scaling rock.

4. The Uruk-Hai were created by Sauramon using his own recipe (black magic).

5. Sauramon was actually looking for the ring himself in the books, and planned to overthrow Sauron.

6. The Witch King of Agmar was a wraith, neither living or dead. I don’t think it necessarily had more power than the Maiar, but they were feared by all because they had the will and control of Sauron.

7. Sauron created the rings to bind control over all races and dominate Middle Earth with no opposition. He wanted the leaders of Elves and Dwarves to fall into wraiths like the men. Sauron learned to put all of his own power in the one ring which would keep him alive as long as the ring survived. Pretty much what kept him around terrorizing Middle Earth for almost 4,000 years.
This post was edited on 1/12 at 9:17 pm


theGarnetWay
South Carolina Fan
Washington, D.C.
Member since Mar 2010
22307 posts

re: Laundry list of LOTR questions
quote:

1. No one heard from Balin and his party after they attempted to reclaim it after the events of the Hobbit. Gimli made a bad assumption that they were alive and well with a reclaim to Khazad-Dum.


Mostly this. If I recall in the books they initially had received word from Balin that things were going well in Moria. One of several reasons Gloin and Gimli went to the Council of Elrond was to express their concern that they hadn’t heard from him in a while and weren’t entirely sure what was going on.


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OMLandshark
Ole Miss Fan
Member since Apr 2009
82849 posts

re: Laundry list of LOTR questions
quote:

Why did no one know Moria had been sacked? The dead bodies look like they've been there for 30 years and skeltonized.


There were extreme suspicions it was. The old dwarf in the Hobbit trilogy Balin retook it but hadn’t been heard from in a while. It’s why Gandalf thought it was a last resort. Gimli was really just delusional thinking they weren’t dead.

quote:

Why were goblins still occupying the caves if a fricking Balrog was roaming the hallways.


They can get into crevices the Balrog can’t. Plus the Balrog provides great protection for themselves.

quote:

How did Gollum get across the bridge a Khazad Dume when it was broken by Gandalf?


Climbed along the walls.

quote:

Why werent the Urak-hai created before and why the hell are they growing in some earth pod.


I might be misremembering this, but I think they had been. Mordor created Uruk Hai before Isengard did.

quote:

Why did Sauromon turn so quickly? Did he honestly think he could co-exist or defeat Sauron?


Yup. He became obsessed with the Ring and thought he could compete with Sauron. Saruman knew Sauron long before the events of the films and were apprentices of Aulë the Smith (which is how Sauron got the knowledge on how to forge something as powerful as the One Ring). Saruman was delusional though and would have eventually been defeated by Sauron had Saruman taken the Ring.

quote:

How did the Witch King beat Gandalf so easily? He's not even an angelic being like Sarumon, Sauron, the Balrogs and others, yet broke his staff. And speaking of the staff, why the wizards sometimes seem powerless without them and then sometimes don't seem to need them at all.


Because he’s powerful and I guess has power tied to his ring and the One Ring. No answer for the staff.

quote:

And lastsly, what the hell did the one ring actually do besides cloud men's minds? Is that it? And why did Sauron wear it? Did it make him physically any stronger? He is the same being as the wizards, but he was seemingly far more powerful? Is that all because of the ring?


The simplest answer is at its full power bind Middle Earth to its will. Some can resist it, but had Sauron taken the Ring in the Third Age, almost no one had the power to do such. Only the Elves and the Numenorians and now Hobbits had some immunity but not complete immunity to the One Ring.


OMLandshark
Ole Miss Fan
Member since Apr 2009
82849 posts

re: Laundry list of LOTR questions
quote:

- Saruman, their creator, was originally good. But in using the Palantir he saw the might of Sauron and was corrupted to believe that there was no hope for the good people of Middle Earth. He despaired and then decided to make a deal with Sauron.


To be fair, Saruman was actively planning on taking the One Ring for himself and then challenging Sauron. He was delusional to do such, but his alliance with Sauron was bullshite, and even Sauron was aware of this.
This post was edited on 1/12 at 11:07 pm


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OMLandshark
Ole Miss Fan
Member since Apr 2009
82849 posts

re: Laundry list of LOTR questions
quote:

6. The Witch King of Agmar was a wraith, neither living or dead. I don’t think it necessarily had more power than the Maiar, but they were feared by all because they had the will and control of Sauron.


I do think their rings and their connection to the One implicitly empowered them.


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JohnnyBgood
LSU Fan
South Louisiana
Member since May 2010
3461 posts

re: Laundry list of LOTR questions
quote:

Saruman knew Sauron long before the events of the films and were apprentices of Aulë the Smith (which is how Sauron got the knowledge on how to forge something as powerful as the One Ring).


I thought Sauron was always a servant of Melkor, no?
This post was edited on 1/12 at 9:17 pm


AURaptor
USA Fan
South
Member since Aug 2018
4575 posts

re: Laundry list of LOTR questions
quote:

I thought Sauron was always a servant of Melkor, no?


He was his 1st Lieutenant. Yes.


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OMLandshark
Ole Miss Fan
Member since Apr 2009
82849 posts

re: Laundry list of LOTR questions
quote:

I thought Sauron was always a servant of Melkor, no?


Yes, but he served Aulë first. Here’s the difference between Sauron and Morgoth. Morgoth wanted chaos while Sauron more admired the structure Aulë provided. Even at the beginning of the Second Age, Sauron had some admirable goals to provide structure and order to Middle Earth before losing his mind to evil for good. Sauron saw Aulë as too weak to provide the structure to the Earth, so he betrayed Aulë to join Melkor (Morgoth) since Sauron also admired power and a grand vision.


Jack Ruby
Memphis Fan
Member since Apr 2014
12620 posts

re: Laundry list of LOTR questions
quote:

I’ve never seen a thread on this site resolved so quickly


It's actually pretty amazing.
This post was edited on 1/12 at 11:05 pm


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DMagic
Alabama Fan
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Member since Aug 2010
42365 posts

re: Laundry list of LOTR questions
And Morgoth had dragons that was a big plus


AURaptor
USA Fan
South
Member since Aug 2018
4575 posts

re: Laundry list of LOTR questions
Hard to see how the Elves defeated multiple dragons and Balrogs, and trolls. They must have been some bad arse Elves back in the day.


JohnnyBgood
LSU Fan
South Louisiana
Member since May 2010
3461 posts

re: Laundry list of LOTR questions
quote:

Hard to see how the Elves defeated multiple dragons and Balrogs, and trolls. They must have been some bad arse Elves back in the day.


Elves of the first age were bad arse warriors, and very determined to defeat Morgoth and reclaim the Silmarils. Fingfolin actually wounded Morgoth and The Sons of Feanor went toe to toe with him and all his evil creations before finally being defeated by their own greed and atrocities. Hell, Glorfindel fought and killed a Balrog, died in the process and was later resurrected.

They were bad to the bone.


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60
UMRealist
Ole Miss Fan
Member since Feb 2013
34329 posts

re: Laundry list of LOTR questions
As a very casual watcher and reader, I've always wondered what happened to all the human/elf/dwarf rings and did they do anything at all anyway?


kage
Auburn Fan
ATL
Member since Feb 2010
4012 posts

re: Laundry list of LOTR questions
I just finished reading the Hobbit to my 8 year old and am about 200 pages into the first LOTR book with him. I may have to come back to this to explain a few things.

Also watched the Hobbit movies with him and eventually LOTR movies when we're done, but I had no idea how different they were than the books.

Is the Silmarillion worth reading to an 8(9 in April) year old or will it be too over his head?
This post was edited on 1/13 at 8:29 am


Philzilla2k
Atlanta Braves Fan
Member since Oct 2017
6397 posts
 Online 

re: Laundry list of LOTR questions
quote:

As a very casual watcher and reader, I've always wondered what happened to all the human/elf/dwarf rings and did they do anything at all anyway?


The elven rings were never touched by Sauron. They were used to heal and preserve Middle Earth which had been corrupted by Morgoth and Sauron, as long as Sauron didn’t have the One Ring. The nine rings of men were seized by Sauron and how he enslaved their wearers. The Dwarven rings were lost or destroyed, consumed by dragons or returned to Sauron. While the dwarven rings allowed their wearers to accumulate great wealth, dwarves proved resistant to Sauron’s will.


TygerTyger
LSU Fan
Houston
Member since Oct 2010
6866 posts

re: Laundry list of LOTR questions
quote:

Is the Silmarillion worth reading to an 8(9 in April) year old or will it be too over his head?


Way too heavy in my opinion. It is written as more of a history book than a story.

If you think there are a lot of characters to keep up with and ancient lore to remember in The Hobbit and LOTR, you ain't seen nothing yet.

The Silmarillion reads like the Old Testament crossed with Beowulf.

Hell, as an adult it took be three tries to finally get through it, and I still don't feel confident discussing it in detail.


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MickeyLikesDags21
LSU Fan
Member since Apr 2019
4977 posts

re: Laundry list of LOTR questions
I have no answers to your questions but I just wanted to say this thread is an awesome read so far. I LOVE LoTR but never went that deep into it so I'm really enjoying reading these responses.


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