- My Forums
- Tiger Rant
- LSU Recruiting
- SEC Rant
- Saints Talk
- Pelicans Talk
- More Sports Board
- Fantasy Sports
- Golf Board
- Soccer Board
- O-T Lounge
- Tech Board
- Home/Garden Board
- Outdoor Board
- Health/Fitness Board
- Movie/TV Board
- Book Board
- Music Board
- Political Talk
- Money Talk
- Fark Board
- Gaming Board
- Travel Board
- Food/Drink Board
- Ticket Exchange
- TD Help Board
Customize My Forums- View All Forums
- Show Left Links
- Topic Sort Options
- Trending Topics
- Recent Topics
- Active Topics
Started By
Message
How sparsely populated was Middle Earth?
Posted on 9/30/22 at 3:51 pm
Posted on 9/30/22 at 3:51 pm
I'm beginning to think that Middle Earth just wasn't a very popular place to live. All of the people and elves and orcs and whoever else who had the means to leave left for better places to live.
In LOTR it only took 1500 Rohans to defeat Saruman's orc army that he'd been working on 24/7 for years. And then last night 500 Numenorians took out all of the known orcs in Middle Earth. Also last night Halbrand was crowned King of the Southlands, which means that he now reigns over maybe 200 or 300 people.
I always poorly gauged the population of Middle Earth
In LOTR it only took 1500 Rohans to defeat Saruman's orc army that he'd been working on 24/7 for years. And then last night 500 Numenorians took out all of the known orcs in Middle Earth. Also last night Halbrand was crowned King of the Southlands, which means that he now reigns over maybe 200 or 300 people.
I always poorly gauged the population of Middle Earth
This post was edited on 9/30/22 at 3:56 pm
12
Posted on 9/30/22 at 3:54 pm to Sgt Tuffnuts
Three or four million if I had to take a guess. It was in the most ancient times of our actual world according to Tolkien, so that's what makes the most sense.
Posted on 9/30/22 at 5:35 pm to Sgt Tuffnuts
it's a shithole country
Posted on 9/30/22 at 5:54 pm to Sgt Tuffnuts
The answer is really going to depend upon which part in history of ME your asking.
Here is a link to a breakdown through different parts of ME history.
LINK
Here is a link to a breakdown through different parts of ME history.
LINK
Posted on 9/30/22 at 7:47 pm to Sgt Tuffnuts
That’s what happens when you don’t have gmos
Posted on 9/30/22 at 7:59 pm to CoachChappy
quote:
The answer is really going to depend upon which part in history of ME your asking.
Here is a link to a breakdown through different parts of ME history.
LINK
Yeah, I was talking the Third Age at the time of the books. Had that about right.
Posted on 9/30/22 at 8:08 pm to OMLandshark
quote:Thinking that might be generous, to say the least.
Three or four million if I had to take a guess. It was in the most ancient times of our actual world according to Tolkien, so that's what makes the most sense.
The Elves were never numerous, and the herd was thinned considerably in the First Age.
Men didn't show up til halfway through that, and again, lots of attrition. But Men repopulate, Elves don't.
But most of the winning side (Men) went to Numenor, so that leaves Middle Earth to the losers.
Point of reference back to LOTR, in the books- I think the Army of the West that approached the Gates of Mordor was about 7-8k. I seem to recall Aragorn or someone saying, back in the heyday of Gondor, that would barely be the vanguard.
A brief google search on vanguards with respect to medieval warfare (my best guess to the point of reference), there were 3 divisions of an army- the vanguard, the middle guard, and the rearguard.
So assuming the guards are roughly equal, the old Gondor forces would be 20k to 30k at most.
Going from that, what percentage of the population would be in the army? That makes a good question, and would determine the overall population to a fair extent.
In LOTR, I would think most men from 15-50, if able-bodied, would be in that lineup, considering the stakes.
Posted on 9/30/22 at 8:50 pm to Scoob
quote:
Thinking that might be generous, to say the least.
It makes sense to me. Osgiliath, Minas Tirith, and Minas Isil were huge, and I expect in southern Gondor there were many settlements scattered through. Rohan I’d guess half a million lived there. It’s pretty much certain like 100,000 Hobbits lived in the Shire. Then you got Dale, Harrad, Rhun, Arnor and I just think there have to be scattered communities to meet that bare minimum three million number.
Then you get into the other races. Yeah, by the War of the Ring, I think it’s a safe assumption only 100,000 elves if that are left in Middle Earth. I’d also imagine Dwarves having a similar population to the Elves. Then you got the Orcs which between the different breeds I’d probably put at half a million. I think between 3-4 million intelligent beings is a good guess.
quote:
Going from that, what percentage of the population would be in the army? That makes a good question, and would determine the overall population to a fair extent.
In LOTR, I would think most men from 15-50, if able-bodied, would be in that lineup, considering the stakes.
Yeah, but a question of location is also relevant. I mean Bree was probably a town of what 10,000 people if that? Dale I’d say was 80,000 and Minas Tirith would probably be like 250,000.
This post was edited on 9/30/22 at 8:51 pm
Posted on 9/30/22 at 9:50 pm to Sgt Tuffnuts
There’s a YouTube channel named Darth Gandalf that covers this. If I knew how to link I would. He talks about the population of various places in middle earth and the size of their military.
Posted on 10/1/22 at 1:07 am to OMLandshark
quote:
It makes sense to me. Osgiliath, Minas Tirith, and Minas Isil were huge, and I expect in southern Gondor there were many settlements scattered through. Rohan I’d guess half a million lived there. It’s pretty much certain like 100,000 Hobbits lived in the Shire. Then you got Dale, Harrad, Rhun, Arnor and I just think there have to be scattered communities to meet that bare minimum three million number.
quote:My take, and it's my interpretation only, I think you have to divide all of your numbers by 10, at least.
. I mean Bree was probably a town of what 10,000 people if that? Dale I’d say was 80,000 and Minas Tirith would probably be like 250,000.
Bree might be lucky to have 1000, if that. Dale, I wouldn't think even 5000. Minas Tirith, 25k at most.
The shire, maybe 2-3000 at most.
These are not modern-day places, with population growth. You go back and look at estimated populations 4 thousand years BC, the largest cities in the world were probably under 10k.
Tolkien fancifully considered his stories to be a recording of prehistory, so you go back to maybe 10,000 bc at least... I've seen timelines suggesting up to 40k. The timelines put Tolkien's works before Howard's (Conan).
Posted on 10/1/22 at 1:30 am to Scoob
quote:
Bree might be lucky to have 1000, if that. Dale, I wouldn't think even 5000. Minas Tirith, 25k at most.
I can buy that Bree may be 1000, but Minas Tirith is way higher than 25K by the War of the Ring. Bare minimum 150K even if only for necessity with the war.
quote:
The shire, maybe 2-3000 at most.
It's higher than that. Yeah, everyone knows who the big players are, but its bigger than that. It's at least five figures in the Shire. Yeah, Hobbiton is small, but the Shire is decently densely populated compared to most of Tolkien's world.
quote:
Tolkien fancifully considered his stories to be a recording of prehistory, so you go back to maybe 10,000 bc at least... I've seen timelines suggesting up to 40k. The timelines put Tolkien's works before Howard's (Conan).
I mean, yeah, but they're wrong. If it's only 40K, then the Ride of the Rohirrim is not nearly as epic. I imagined there were 3,000 Rohirrim. 500 is just a farce.
Posted on 10/1/22 at 3:21 am to Scoob
quote:
books- I think the Army of the West that approached the Gates of Mordor was about 7-8k. I seem to recall Aragorn or someone saying, back in the heyday of Gondor, that would barely be the vanguard.
It’s was less than that, and it was Prince Imrahil. I’ll have to go back and read the Akallabeth. When The Numenoreans landed in ME to take down Sauron, their army was massive. This was at the height of their power.
Posted on 10/1/22 at 6:43 am to theunknownknight
quote:
it's a shithole country
So it’s basically New Orleans. Got it.
Posted on 10/1/22 at 12:01 pm to OMLandshark
quote:The Ride of the Rohirrim is about 3-4k, but it's epic because it's damn near every male who can ride a horse.
I mean, yeah, but they're wrong. If it's only 40K, then the Ride of the Rohirrim is not nearly as epic. I imagined there were 3,000 Rohirrim. 500 is just a farce.
When Theoden put Eowyn in charge, and she said 'when the men go to war, the women have leave to die at home if they don't come back'. She wasn't joking; most of the people who stayed behind were women, children and the old. It wasn't an expeditionary force, it was every male, figure 15-50, from a land with a life expectancy in the 60's.
So I'd put Rohan's overall pop around 20k total.
The shire, maybe 500 or a bit more in Hobbiton, similar in Buckland, similar where the Tooks are, and then maybe similar again spread out in the fields around. You can maybe double that number, or even triple. Not much more than that. Everyone knew everyone else in those communities. It may be densely populated compared to the outside world, but it's tiny, and there are still vast areas which are fields, woods etc.
Hobbiton isn't a real city or really even a town, it's basically a subdivision.
And there aren't dozens of farmhouses surrounding Farmer Maggot's land, he's out there basically with just his own family.
Posted on 10/1/22 at 3:58 pm to Scoob
For whatever reason I had it stuck in my head that it was about 1500-2000 Rohirrians who rode towards Minas Tirith.
Posted on 10/1/22 at 4:09 pm to Sgt Tuffnuts
quote:
In the event, owing to losses in the western war, the hastiness of the Muster, and the threat from North and East, Théoden only led out a host of some six thousand spears, though this was still the greatest riding of the Rohirrim that was recorded since the coming of Eorl
Unfinished Tales
Posted on 10/1/22 at 5:18 pm to Scoob
quote:
But Men repopulate, Elves don't.
Que?
How do you explain Elronds daughter?
And elronds wife was Galadriel's daughter
Posted on 10/1/22 at 7:07 pm to Magician2
quote:
How do you explain Elronds daughter?
Isn’t Elrond half-elven?
Posted on 10/1/22 at 7:25 pm to Sgt Tuffnuts
Well the world was based on Medieval Europe so fairly sparsely populated.
Posted on 10/1/22 at 9:02 pm to Philzilla2k
quote:In the lore, that just means part-Man and part-Elf. As I recall, he is 1/4 Man and 3/4 Elf.
Isn’t Elrond half-elven?
Page 1 of 3
Popular
Back to top
Follow TigerDroppings for LSU Football News