- My Forums
- Tiger Rant
- LSU Recruiting
- SEC Rant
- Saints Talk
- Pelicans Talk
- More Sports Board
- Fantasy Sports
- Golf Board
- Soccer Board
- O-T Lounge
- Tech Board
- Home/Garden Board
- Outdoor Board
- Health/Fitness Board
- Movie/TV Board
- Book Board
- Music Board
- Political Talk
- Money Talk
- Fark Board
- Gaming Board
- Travel Board
- Food/Drink Board
- Ticket Exchange
- TD Help Board
Customize My Forums- View All Forums
- Show Left Links
- Topic Sort Options
- Trending Topics
- Recent Topics
- Active Topics
Started By
Message
Game of Thrones: Foreshadowing Is Not Character Development
Posted on 5/17/19 at 9:16 pm
Posted on 5/17/19 at 9:16 pm
This is my final post on the topic until the series finale in two days time.
The link below is to a video that addresses how Dany's madness has been hinted at since the first season. What it shows is that foreshadowing =/= character development.
YouTube
The link below is to a video that addresses how Dany's madness has been hinted at since the first season. What it shows is that foreshadowing =/= character development.
YouTube
17
Posted on 5/17/19 at 9:18 pm to RollTide1987
Foreshadowing can be a tool of character development. So I gotta stop you there.
Further, I’ll add this: there was always an underlying tension with her character. It was shown by foreshadowing but it also revealed her character flaw.
Further, I’ll add this: there was always an underlying tension with her character. It was shown by foreshadowing but it also revealed her character flaw.
quote:
There was always a tension with Dany. And it is framed in this question:
“What would Dany do if decent people simply didn’t want her as queen?”
She really only had ONE solution if anyone opposed her and it was always fire. In Esos, the above question was slowly raised over time as people slowly began to question her. Her frustration mounted but those closest to her kept her in check by constantly saying “DON’T DO THAT ONE THING!”
But the question and tension remained. What would she do if people simply didn’t want her?
When she came to Westeros she was met by a whole realm of people who had no desire or want for her to be their queen. They didn’t need her. There were no slaves. No real suffering. Just politics. The common people were just...people.
They already had Jon and Cersei and Sansa. Who is she to them?
Well this pissed her off but she sucked it up and sacrificed her army to save the living hoping to win their affection.
In the process, she lost all those she cared about, trusted, and who kept her in check while watching Jon gain MORE affection. She saw people only respected her because Jon bent the knee, not because they simply wanted her.
Her best friend, her most loyal advisor, two dragons, 75% of her army all died before her eyes. Tyrian failed her in her eyes, Varys committed treason, and Jon betrayed her trust. She was alone, unstable, and feeling unwanted all while being royally pissed off.
So what would she do when decent people simply didn’t want or need her while she had no one to reign in her ONE desire to burn and to conquer?
She burned and conquered.
This post was edited on 5/17/19 at 9:23 pm
Posted on 5/17/19 at 9:20 pm to RollTide1987
quote:
Game of Thrones: Foreshadowing Is Not Character Development
D&D are not competent writers
Posted on 5/17/19 at 9:27 pm to RollTide1987
quote:So what? They didn’t just foreshadow this; they showed her murders become decreasingly justifiable (from slavers to leaders of Dothraki to Dickon).
Game of Thrones: Foreshadowing Is Not Character Development
And she was in the verge of doing exactly what she did in Meereen before Tyrion talked her down. That’s not just foreshadowing.
It’s one thing to call it rushed, but it’s another to try to dismiss it all as just foreshadowing without any actual development.
This post was edited on 5/17/19 at 9:28 pm
Posted on 5/17/19 at 9:55 pm to theunknownknight
This season had been a train wreck. No clue how y'all defend this garage 
It's entertaining garbage though
It's entertaining garbage though
Posted on 5/17/19 at 10:08 pm to theunknownknight
None of that explains how she could go from being who she was to indiscriminately burning innocent women and children after a city had surrendered to her. She had her dragons, her children, chained up and locked away under Mereen for more than a season because one of them MIGHT have burned a little girl to death.
It all happened too fast and her descent into madness was not explored in-depth at all. She went from ordering her armies north to defend humanity, losing half of them in the process, to having them kill everyone in their path in just two episodes. That's lazy arse writing.
It all happened too fast and her descent into madness was not explored in-depth at all. She went from ordering her armies north to defend humanity, losing half of them in the process, to having them kill everyone in their path in just two episodes. That's lazy arse writing.
Posted on 5/17/19 at 10:33 pm to RollTide1987
quote:
That's lazy arse writing.
There arent many people out there arguing this. I've defended the show more than most but I mean nobody on here has been praising the show writers. But that doesnt mean the show is crap now and deserving of the all time melt down that has happened.
Posted on 5/17/19 at 10:37 pm to theunknownknight
The bells signify the end. And what is at the end for her? People that don't want her as their ruler. A lover who had forsaken her. Knives in the back with no friends but grey worm who had no political sense.
Posted on 5/17/19 at 10:37 pm to iwyLSUiwy
quote:
There arent many people out there arguing this
There absolutely are.
Posted on 5/17/19 at 11:00 pm to LNCHBOX
I liked her better when she was getting fricked doggystyle by Khal Drogo.
She has pretty much sucked since then.
Jorah should have manned up and laid the wood to her instead of getting whacked.
She has pretty much sucked since then.
Jorah should have manned up and laid the wood to her instead of getting whacked.
Posted on 5/18/19 at 3:01 am to RollTide1987
quote:
She went from ordering her armies north to defend humanity, losing half of them in the process, to having them kill everyone in their path in just two episodes. That's lazy arse writing.
She also just found out her entire life’s work is going down the drain because, turns out, she fricked her nephew who has a legit claim to the throne and everyone likes.
Posted on 5/18/19 at 5:16 am to RollTide1987
The video you posted is essentially just a very articulate version of the “I don’t like this so it sucks” argument.
He gives numerous examples of this being hinted at and of her personal stressors/tragedies building up and pushing her to this only to follow each up with “it still isn’t enough”. Look, if crucifying hundreds of men you’ve never met to prove a point isn’t sufficient to indicate underlying sociopathy then literally nothing was ever going to be enough. There was NOTHING that could make most who are unhappy with this ok with it.
He gives numerous examples of this being hinted at and of her personal stressors/tragedies building up and pushing her to this only to follow each up with “it still isn’t enough”. Look, if crucifying hundreds of men you’ve never met to prove a point isn’t sufficient to indicate underlying sociopathy then literally nothing was ever going to be enough. There was NOTHING that could make most who are unhappy with this ok with it.
Posted on 5/18/19 at 5:21 am to RollTide1987
quote:
None of that explains how she could go from being who she was to indiscriminately burning innocent women and children after a city had surrendered to her. She had her dragons, her children, chained up and locked away under Mereen for more than a season because one of them MIGHT have burned a little girl to death.
It all happened too fast and her descent into madness was not explored in-depth at all. She went from ordering her armies north to defend humanity, losing half of them in the process, to having them kill everyone in their path in just two episodes. That's lazy arse writing.
Since then, the following has happened:
She found out she is not and never was the rightful Targaryen heir to the throne
She discovers the actual rightful heir is her lover, who also happens to be her nephew, but then spurns her affection
Her two closest friends in the world are killed, one murdered by the people in the city she destroys
She’s gone from the rightful heir of the throne to an incestuous, friendless loser who discovered her entire meaning and purpose in life was a lie.
This post was edited on 5/18/19 at 5:23 am
Posted on 5/18/19 at 7:12 am to RollTide1987
quote:
Foreshadowing Is Not Character Development
You should apply for White House communications director with this spin.
Posted on 5/18/19 at 8:18 am to RollTide1987
I buy that Dany could do what she did. At the same time I think they could’ve showed a bit more of a prolonged/desperate descent into that madness. Hell an episode and a half prior to her going nuts she was killing wights left and right in a heroic role. The fact that they had to include the “coin flip “ audio so many times in the shows intro kinda shows to me that they didn’t completely tell a full story of her breakdown.
Jaime running back to Cersei and Dany descending were two massive instances where the show could’ve used a few more episodes/different pacing. I enjoyed where they eventually ended up but the later steps prior to the payout could’ve used work.
Jaime running back to Cersei and Dany descending were two massive instances where the show could’ve used a few more episodes/different pacing. I enjoyed where they eventually ended up but the later steps prior to the payout could’ve used work.
This post was edited on 5/18/19 at 8:21 am
Posted on 5/18/19 at 8:18 am to RollTide1987
I have never really been invested in Dany's story-line that much one way or the other (except it did give us a few great scenes of nice bodies from Dany, Missandi and assorted Dothraki ladies), so her "turn" didn't really bother me.
From the outside looking in, though, it sure looks like lazy and sloppy writing to me. To have her torch thousands upon thousands of innocent people who had surrendered to her and were thus her subjects just doesn't make sense. She went full pyro after she had won everything. The only power opposing her was Cersei. The Reach, The Iron Islands, Dorne and the North had all acknowledged her. Tyrion, who would be the last Lannister left if she killed Jamie and Cersei was her hand.
Think about it - she killed the core of the people who would pay tribute to her. Thus, she lost any and all income streams from those people and, in the same swoop, she incurred all kinds of expenses if she chooses to rebuild the capital. Additionally she taught the rest of the realm the lesson: DON'T EVER SURRENDER to this woman. She will kill you painfully if you do. If you choose fighting, you at least have a chance at a relatiely quicker death from an Unsullied spear or a Dothraki Arakh. (Alternatively, if you really want to surrender, do it directly to the Unsullied. You will get a quick spear through the heart and your women are much less likely to get raped).
Any "threat" from Jon's claim (which she may have felt despite his continuing pledges of loyalty and non interest in ruling) could have been handled so many different ways. Marriage, even if he insisted on it being celibate from here on out, would have neutralized it. Naming him to an order that can not hold titles (the Night's Watch is probably gone, but they can institute something similar, or use Queensguard or something like that) would have neutralized it. A quick spear or sword to his back from one of her soldiers in the heat of battle would have done it. A little poison at dinner or through that Dornish kissing poison would have done it. Etc. etc.
The only reason I can see for her killing the civilians in Kings's Landing after the surrender was that the writers must have wanted to make absolutely sure that she came off as the bad guy and there was no arguments about whether her actions were morally justified. Even then, I've seen arguments on some boards that she was justified in doing this, but admittedly that is a very fringe opinion.
From the outside looking in, though, it sure looks like lazy and sloppy writing to me. To have her torch thousands upon thousands of innocent people who had surrendered to her and were thus her subjects just doesn't make sense. She went full pyro after she had won everything. The only power opposing her was Cersei. The Reach, The Iron Islands, Dorne and the North had all acknowledged her. Tyrion, who would be the last Lannister left if she killed Jamie and Cersei was her hand.
Think about it - she killed the core of the people who would pay tribute to her. Thus, she lost any and all income streams from those people and, in the same swoop, she incurred all kinds of expenses if she chooses to rebuild the capital. Additionally she taught the rest of the realm the lesson: DON'T EVER SURRENDER to this woman. She will kill you painfully if you do. If you choose fighting, you at least have a chance at a relatiely quicker death from an Unsullied spear or a Dothraki Arakh. (Alternatively, if you really want to surrender, do it directly to the Unsullied. You will get a quick spear through the heart and your women are much less likely to get raped).
Any "threat" from Jon's claim (which she may have felt despite his continuing pledges of loyalty and non interest in ruling) could have been handled so many different ways. Marriage, even if he insisted on it being celibate from here on out, would have neutralized it. Naming him to an order that can not hold titles (the Night's Watch is probably gone, but they can institute something similar, or use Queensguard or something like that) would have neutralized it. A quick spear or sword to his back from one of her soldiers in the heat of battle would have done it. A little poison at dinner or through that Dornish kissing poison would have done it. Etc. etc.
The only reason I can see for her killing the civilians in Kings's Landing after the surrender was that the writers must have wanted to make absolutely sure that she came off as the bad guy and there was no arguments about whether her actions were morally justified. Even then, I've seen arguments on some boards that she was justified in doing this, but admittedly that is a very fringe opinion.
Posted on 5/18/19 at 8:25 am to Methuselah
quote:
To have her torch thousands upon thousands of innocent people who had surrendered to her and were thus her subjects just doesn't make sense. She went full pyro after she had won everything.
Yes.. really puts the mad in Mad Queen huh?
Posted on 5/18/19 at 8:52 am to theGarnetWay
What else did they need to show? When Jon arrives she has been sitting in a room for two weeks going into a downward spiral.
What did viewers wanna see Dany in a room pout for an episode?
What did viewers wanna see Dany in a room pout for an episode?
This post was edited on 5/18/19 at 8:56 am
Posted on 5/18/19 at 8:55 am to RollTide1987
I think people are overstating Danaerys’ “madness.” The choice she made was very consciously set up prior to her carrying it out. She realized after the battle with the Night King that though her help was appreciated by the Northerners, it did not buy her their love the way she had hoped it would. Their allegiance, which she had thought would simply transfer from Jon to her, remained with him, and was in fact deepened by the battle. Her hold on them went solely through him. But she still thought she could count on their allegiance vicariously through Jon since he loved her, as long as he never let the secret of his birth get out. She knew that, if it ever did, her days were numbered because she didn’t command the people’s love. When Jon refused to keep the secret from Sansa and Arya, that left her believing she possessed only one remaining method of control to keep her throne: fear. She didn’t snap during the battle of King’s Landing and just suddenly decide to start torching the place. The anguish on her face wasn’t madness creeping up on her. It was her steeling herself to do what she had already decided to do, which was wait until the city surrendered to her, and then destroy it as chastisement for resisting her in the first place. Was it a good choice? Obviously not. But it was at least a logical progression of thought, and not, as it might have seemed on the surface, simply a psychotic break.
Posted on 5/18/19 at 9:05 am to RollTide1987
You are a moron if you didn’t see Dany turning into a monster coming. There isn’t much more to say about the topic at this point.
That doesn’t mean the last 2 seasons have been well executed compared to the beginning of the series. But the melt about this particular plot turn is clearly people just disliking the turn rather than how we got there.
That moment she was sitting there with bells ringing, not knowing if she was going to burn the city was one on the most tense moments in the show and I feel sorry for y’all that completely missed that moment
It felt rushed? You should have gotten over that the moment they said it was going to be a six episode final season.
That doesn’t mean the last 2 seasons have been well executed compared to the beginning of the series. But the melt about this particular plot turn is clearly people just disliking the turn rather than how we got there.
That moment she was sitting there with bells ringing, not knowing if she was going to burn the city was one on the most tense moments in the show and I feel sorry for y’all that completely missed that moment
It felt rushed? You should have gotten over that the moment they said it was going to be a six episode final season.
Page 1 of 3
Back to top
Follow TigerDroppings for LSU Football News