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re: WTF was Lebron doing?
Posted on 5/12/10 at 2:25 am to DrSteveBrule
Posted on 5/12/10 at 2:25 am to DrSteveBrule
quote:
Right now you're talking about the Orlando Magic who are an actual GOOD team. It's not even a comparison between the Cavs and the Magic
If you're ranking players in the playoffs, you take Bron and Howard obviously, then the next 4 players probably are magic players.
Vince
Jameer
Rashard
And I'll even say Peitrus is playing better than any other Cav at this point. He's shooting lights out. You can't put Mo ahead of him, not even close. You can make an argument for Jamison, but either way, I think my point stands, lol.
1
Posted on 5/12/10 at 2:26 am to shel311
talking about last years rosters when bringing up the magic. them and the magic this year int he playoffs dont count until they actually play.
Posted on 5/12/10 at 2:27 am to shel311
quote:
Take Bron and Rondo off of each team, and the Celtics are probably a double digit favorite on a neutral court, or near that.
But that's not how the teams are. LeBron's teammates play well when LeBron is aggressive and playing MVP basketball, true or false? LeBron's teammates play poorly when LeBron is passive and lethargic, true or false? You can blame his teammates all you want, but he's their leader. They look to him for great play and leadership. If he doesn't deliver that then HE is to blame. The Magic series falls on the cast, but this series falls on James.
Posted on 5/12/10 at 2:28 am to fightingtiger2335
quote:
I was mentioning in that series it wasn't like the Orlando roster was head and shoulders above Cleveland
You know, even not remotely looking at rosters and looking at the product on the court, Orlando was just flat out better than Cleveland.
Mo Williams was the Cavs 2nd best player and even an All Star. Did you see him in games 1-4? When that's Lebron's 2nd option, what is he supposed to do? Mo is one of the worst defenders in the league. If he's shooting 30% on the offensive side as your 2nd option, I'm just not sure what anyone can do. On the other side, Orlando shot something like 45% from 3 in the series. So they were easily a better team when it mattered.
quote:
Sometimes monster stats can actually hurt the team..I know..weird concept..
That is absolutely true. But if you watched that Orlando series you know that does not remotely fit in that instance. Had Lebron averaged/25/6/5, they would have gotten swept, no doubt about it.
Posted on 5/12/10 at 2:32 am to AlexLSU
quote:
But that's not how the teams are. LeBron's teammates play well when LeBron is aggressive and playing MVP basketball, true or false? LeBron's teammates play poorly when LeBron is passive and lethargic, true or false? You can blame his teammates all you want, but he's their leader. They look to him for great play and leadership. If he doesn't deliver that then HE is to blame. The Magic series falls on the cast, but this series falls on James.
Okay, and what you have JUST described is a situation in which the front office is to blame for establishing a team where EVERYTHING is dependent on one player.
Who is the best player on the Lakers? Kobe. What happens when he sucks? Gasol, Odom, sometimes Bynum, Fisher, etc. They step up. What happens when Jameer Nelson or Dwight Howard have a bad game? The other guy steps up and then some.
Blame Lebron, he has a bad game and they lose. Well frick, look at how much PRESSURE his organization is putting on him. He IS the Cleveland Cavaliers. You just can't have that man.
Posted on 5/12/10 at 2:34 am to DrSteveBrule
People before this series seemed to give credit to Cleveland front office for giving Lebron the pieces he needed to win.
Posted on 5/12/10 at 2:35 am to AlexLSU
quote:
But that's not how the teams are. LeBron's teammates play well when LeBron is aggressive and playing MVP basketball, true or false? LeBron's teammates play poorly when LeBron is passive and lethargic, true or false? You can blame his teammates all you want, but he's their leader. They look to him for great play and leadership. If he doesn't deliver that then HE is to blame
All true points that i agree with. Bron was basura tonight, straight garbage.
Also, the cast isn't ALWAYS best when Bron is agressive. See Orlando series last year. Sometimes no matter what he does, they will just suck, lol.
BUT, I think the problem is, Lebron's teammates for whatever reason, disappear in the playoffs. This is pretty much fact, IMO.
So, that being said, a Lebron bad game, or passive game can't be masked.
If Kobe or Dwight or Rondo have a bad game, and they have, it's no big deal because there team can either still win the game or they can bounce back because they have enough weapons.
Again, not making this a Kobe-Lebron thing, but Kobe shot 40% for the entire series against OKC and played REALLY bad in games 3 and 4 in OKC. But people forget that real quick after gasol puts a tip in to end the series in 6.
Lebron plays 2 bad games, and the series is almost over.
I think that plays a huge part and just kinda shows how the team difference plays into the perception of each individual player.
This post was edited on 5/12/10 at 2:36 am
Posted on 5/12/10 at 2:36 am to shel311
quote:
People before this series seemed to give credit to Cleveland front office for giving Lebron the pieces he needed to win.
Again, when a team is dominating and winning games, it's easy to say things like that.
Regular Season.
Playoffs.
Apple.
Orange.
Posted on 5/12/10 at 2:37 am to fightingtiger2335
quote:
People before this series seemed to give credit to Cleveland front office for giving Lebron the pieces he needed to win.
Just for the record, I never did. I had LAL winning the title all along, ddin't even think of taking CLE when they got Jamison.
I had Cleveland winning this series against Boston in 7, so I knew it'd be tough, but definitely didn't see this coming, no doubt.
Posted on 5/12/10 at 2:37 am to DrSteveBrule
Is after game 1 of the 2nd round of the playoffs not considered the playoffs anymore?
Look...the guy is a great player. def 1 of 2 best in the NBA. thats a toss up to who you prefer....doesnt mean you have to blindly defend the guy. Save that for CP3 like I do.
Look...the guy is a great player. def 1 of 2 best in the NBA. thats a toss up to who you prefer....doesnt mean you have to blindly defend the guy. Save that for CP3 like I do.
Posted on 5/12/10 at 2:39 am to shel311
Well...this series is far from over. Cleveland has shown they can dominate in Boston as well....people counting the Cavs out already are jumping the gun. Lebron wont go down without some type of fight..if he does ill be disappointed
Posted on 5/12/10 at 2:39 am to shel311
quote:
Again, when a team is dominating and winning games, it's easy to say things like that.
Regular Season.
Playoffs.
Apple.
Orange.
And for the record, I am one of the people I just described that sucked off the Cavaliers too early. I don't think I did it on these boards, but I really thought the Cavaliers were a great team and I will admit that. I looked at Shaq, and Jamison, and blindly forgot their age. And part of my frustration in this thread is because it's pretty sick watching how useless the Cavaliers are right now.
Posted on 5/12/10 at 2:41 am to fightingtiger2335
quote:
Look...the guy is a great player. def 1 of 2 best in the NBA. thats a toss up to who you prefer....doesnt mean you have to blindly defend the guy.
I think the OP guy made legitimate points that even if you disagree with, it's certainly not blindly defending him.
quote:
Save that for CP3 like I do.
I definitely got your back on that.
Posted on 5/12/10 at 2:42 am to DrSteveBrule
quote:
Okay, and what you have JUST described is a situation in which the front office is to blame for establishing a team where EVERYTHING is dependent on one player.
No one here is saying the front office has done an immaculate job. They've obviously done something right to secure the #1 seed two consecutive years. If the team and coach fold, that's not their fault. They don't play the games.
quote:
Who is the best player on the Lakers? Kobe. What happens when he sucks? Gasol, Odom, sometimes Bynum, Fisher, etc. They step up.
In certain games. You really think that those guys are gonna win playoff games in the West without Kobe playing elite ball? First, the Lakers offense is more of a team offense, whereas Cleveland's offense goes directly through LeBron. Second, the Lakers have one other guy who can consistently create his offense when Kobe is out, and that's Pau. Lamar is bipolar, Fisher and Artest are streaky at best offensively, Bynum completely disappears at times. Who is faciliating or taking last shots without Kobe? Believe me, it's a trainwreck of a 4th quarter if he's not there against a good team.
quote:
What happens when Jameer Nelson or Dwight Howard have a bad game? The other guy steps up and then some.
They have the best cast in the league. Lewis, Carter, Howard, and Nelson are all capable of consistently generating offense alone if one of the other guys is out. The Lakers, Cavs, and Suns are much more dependant on their best player for offense.
quote:
Blame Lebron, he has a bad game and they lose. Well frick, look at how much PRESSURE his organization is putting on him. He IS the Cleveland Cavaliers. You just can't have that man.
Pressure comes with being the best in any sport.
Posted on 5/12/10 at 2:47 am to AlexLSU
quote:
You really think that those guys are gonna win playoff games in the West without Kobe playing elite ball?
They beat a 50+ win OKC team in 6 and Kobe wasn't playing elite ball.
quote:
First, the Lakers offense is more of a team offense, whereas Cleveland's offense goes directly through LeBron.
That's a problem, but it's actually kinda funny. Cause if Lebron isn't the focal point of that cast and have more of a team offense, would they really be better? It's a tough question I always ask, I don't know if they really have a better option in the 4th then give to Bron and sttand around and watch. That really may be there best option, lol.
quote:
Pressure comes with being the best in any sport.
I do agree with this. He's gonna take the heat, especially by the media.
Posted on 5/12/10 at 2:47 am to AlexLSU
Of course Kobe is essential to the Lakers. If he wasn't on the Lakers then they wouldn't win the championship last year, or be in contention this year. But my point was simply that, all of the teams still remaining in the playoffs are so much better constructed for competing well when their star player/players are having a rough game than the Cavaliers are.
And yes, pressure comes with any sport, and you have to be able to handle it, but construct your team better so some of that pressure is alleviated. Lebron James is the coach of the team, the star player, the life of the team, etc. You just can't be all that and you can't just put all of that on one guy the way this organization does.
You can also argue that Lebron James is the CITY, but that isn't the organization's fault. That's the fault of the Cleveland Browns and the Indians for sucking so much arse.
And yes, pressure comes with any sport, and you have to be able to handle it, but construct your team better so some of that pressure is alleviated. Lebron James is the coach of the team, the star player, the life of the team, etc. You just can't be all that and you can't just put all of that on one guy the way this organization does.
You can also argue that Lebron James is the CITY, but that isn't the organization's fault. That's the fault of the Cleveland Browns and the Indians for sucking so much arse.
This post was edited on 5/12/10 at 2:50 am
Posted on 5/12/10 at 2:54 am to DrSteveBrule
quote:
The Lakers, Cavs, and Suns are much more dependant on their best player for offense.
I agree with the Cavs, but the Lakers are the deepest team in the league... the Magic are a close second. And the Suns have had innumerable players step up for them this postseason!
Posted on 5/12/10 at 2:56 am to shel311
quote:
Also, the cast isn't ALWAYS best when Bron is agressive. See Orlando series last year. Sometimes no matter what he does, they will just suck, lol.
True. Orlando was just the better team.
quote:
If Kobe or Dwight or Rondo have a bad game, and they have, it's no big deal because there team can either still win the game or they can bounce back because they have enough weapons.
Do you think the Lakers could beat Boston without Kobe having a great series? I don't. Boston pretty much proved it in 2008. They matchup well with L.A., and if not for Kobe playing good ball, they don't win either. Orlando is the exception because of how many guys can take over offensively. It's truly odd how they have that many elite perimeter scorers.
quote:
Again, not making this a Kobe-Lebron thing, but Kobe shot 40% for the entire series against OKC and played REALLY bad in games 3 and 4 in OKC
Games the Lakers both lossed. In Game 3 Kobe was aggressive. He wasn't very efficient, but he was an aggressive facilitator (24pts/8ast). That was a close loss. In Game 4 Kobe was worn down and quiet. He took 10 shots and dished out 4 assists, so he wasn't aggressive and didn't facilitate; the Lakers were destroyed. The Lakers' cast is better than Cleveland's, but when the best player doesn't or can't bring it, the team usually folds against a really good team.
quote:
But people forget that real quick after gasol puts a tip in to end the series in 6.
Not coincidentally though, this is the game where Kobe turned it around (his first 30 of now 5 consecutive 30 point games). Gasol plays his best when Kobe is aggressive and efficient.
While Cleveland and L.A. aren't really that comparable as far as rosters go, I think we can both agree that teams generally play better when the star is playing well. Role players feed off of another player's greatness. It doesn't always end up with a postive results (Orlando last year), but in this series against the C's it has held true.
Posted on 5/12/10 at 3:26 am to AlexLSU
quote:
Do you think the Lakers could beat Boston without Kobe having a great series? I don't
The way Boston is playing NOW, probably not.
At any rate, I'm just glad the trolls are in hiding tonight and we can have a legit decent discussion about this.
Posted on 5/12/10 at 5:13 am to shel311
quote:
WTF was Lebron doing?
EPIC FAIL!!!!!!!!Thats what he was doing.
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