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Message
re: Video of Wisconsin-Arizona State finish
Posted on 9/15/13 at 10:35 am to ballscaster
Posted on 9/15/13 at 10:35 am to ballscaster
quote:
Everybody is ignoring the fact that Wisconsin wasn't even set for the play when the clock hit 0.
yeah i saw it live and have watched the video 20x, and i don't see how wisconsin doesn't get the lion's share of the blame. the QB wasn't even in a position to spike the ball until it was too late. the OL wasn't set. etc
1
Posted on 9/15/13 at 10:36 am to MOT
The ending of this game reminds me of those awkward social situations where one party does something "off," then the second party doesn't know how to react. It then ripples back to the first party who doesn't know they started the awkwardness for a few seconds.
That's what happened out there. The way Wisconsin ran that play confused the refs. Wisconsin couldn't figure out why/what caused the problem since it all seemed normal to them and therefore didn't react in a way to snap the refs out of it until it was too late.
Thing is, players and refs are both charged with the responsibility of knowing what's going on so it really comes down to who you believe should control the game.
That's what happened out there. The way Wisconsin ran that play confused the refs. Wisconsin couldn't figure out why/what caused the problem since it all seemed normal to them and therefore didn't react in a way to snap the refs out of it until it was too late.
Thing is, players and refs are both charged with the responsibility of knowing what's going on so it really comes down to who you believe should control the game.
This post was edited on 9/15/13 at 10:38 am
Posted on 9/15/13 at 10:39 am to ballscaster
quote:
Wisconsin's entire offensive line was fiddle-farting around and never got set
They never got set because the ball wasn't spotted.
Answer this, would that much time have been allowed to run off in a "normal" two minute, hurry up situation? Say a receiver is tackled in bounds, jumps up, and leaves the ball laying on the ground. Then the defense jumps on the ball while the offense is lining up to snap/spike. Do you honestly think the ref is just going to stand there and politely ask for the defensive player to get up, and allow him to take his time in doing so?
You know the answer to that. It's cute that you want to play contrarian, but sometimes the situation really is as straight forward as it seems.
Posted on 9/15/13 at 10:40 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
and i don't see how wisconsin doesn't get the lion's share of the blame
+1
Posted on 9/15/13 at 10:41 am to Teddy Ruxpin
quote:
The way Wisconsin ran that play confused the refs
The refs weren't confused. The play was blown dead as soon as he took the knee. The issue is how much time they allowed to run off after the fact without marking the ball ready for play.
Posted on 9/15/13 at 10:45 am to MOT
quote:
The issue is how much time they allowed to run off after the fact without marking the ball ready for play.
And you don't think this may have been confusion?
I don't know what the hell the refs were thinking, I'm just trying to venture a guess. Wisconsin's actions during that period showed confusion as well. That's why I said it was like an awkward social interaction out there.
They are so used to that situation playing out a certain way with refs doing it correctly that when it didn't follow the standard pattern they all brain froze. It's basic human reaction to freeze like that so I don't blame them for not pushing everyone of the ball themselves and just lining up and snapping. Stave and the rest of the line either looked unaware of the time left our were so thrown off by the ref holding them up that none even started freaking out until two seconds left.
This post was edited on 9/15/13 at 10:50 am
Posted on 9/15/13 at 10:49 am to Teddy Ruxpin
Wisconsin was confused because the refs were allowing ASU to just lay on the ball while the clock was running. The head ref wasn't confused because he blew the whistle when the QB's knee touched and was waiting for the ball to be spotted for the next play. The umpire was just incompetent in getting it set.
Posted on 9/15/13 at 10:49 am to MOT
quote:
They never got set because the ball wasn't spotted.
Hurry-up offenses often get set before the ball is spotted. Wisconsin blew this game because they didn't get set before the game ended.quote:Depends on where the tackle happened and how many yards were gained, and how close to the sideline the play ended.
Answer this, would that much time have been allowed to run off in a "normal" two minute, hurry up situation? Say a receiver is tackled in bounds, jumps up, and leaves the ball laying on the ground. Then the defense jumps on the ball while the offense is lining up to snap/spike. Do you honestly think the ref is just going to stand there and politely ask for the defensive player to get up, and allow him to take his time in doing so?
quote:No I don't. It's an incomplete question.
You know the answer to that.
As it is, there were 11 seconds between the end of the play and the ball being spotted and ready. That's not abnormal for a play where the defense falls on what they believe to be a fumble.
Posted on 9/15/13 at 10:51 am to MOT
quote:fixed
The issue is how much time Wisconsin allowed to run off after the fact before getting set.
The clock hit 0 before they were set. The QB is supposed to make sure this doesn't happen. He failed.
This post was edited on 9/15/13 at 10:51 am
Posted on 9/15/13 at 10:52 am to ballscaster
quote:
on what they believe to be a fumble
Sure they thought it was a fumble. But if you want to go that route, what do the officials normally do when there is a pile up following a fumble?
This post was edited on 9/15/13 at 11:07 am
Posted on 9/15/13 at 10:55 am to ballscaster
quote:
The clock hit 0 before they were set. The QB is supposed to make sure this doesn't happen. He failed
You're clueless, do you think the officials mark the ball ready for play based on when the offense is set?
The umpire didn't move off the ball until there was one second on the clock. That has zero to do with Wisconsin, their offense, their QB, their coach, being set, etc.
ETA: I like how the umpire stops to have a conversation with the ASU player standing next to him while he is "encouraging" the other player to get off the ball. I guess that was Wisconsin's fault also.
This post was edited on 9/15/13 at 10:57 am
Posted on 9/15/13 at 10:57 am to MOT
quote:Doesn't matter. Wisconsin's offense wasn't set. They couldn't run a play. Obviously the officials didn't delay anything. You lose. Give it up. Let it go.
You're clueless, do you think the officials mark the ball ready for play based on when the offense is set?
The umpire didn't move off the ball until there was one second on the clock. That has zero to do with Wisconsin, their offense, their QB, their coach, being set, etc.
Posted on 9/15/13 at 11:01 am to ballscaster
quote:
They couldn't run a play. Obviously the officials didn't delay anything. You lose. Give it up. Let it go
You have no idea what you are talking about. The earliest they could have snapped the ball was with one second and according to the new rule that isn't even enough time anyway. It doesn't matter if they were set, not set, if they were playing scrabble, eating a sandwich, etc. Because of the official it was not possible to snap the ball before one second was left.
How do you not understand that?
Posted on 9/15/13 at 11:04 am to Teddy Ruxpin
Most of the "blame" goes to the U. The WH gets to shoulder his portion.
The play was dead when the QB simulated taking a knee.
The WH HAS TO MAKE IT CLEAR to everyone the ball was dead; he didn't.
The U HAS TO SPRINT TO THE BALL and take charge; he didn't.
The play was dead when the QB simulated taking a knee.
The WH HAS TO MAKE IT CLEAR to everyone the ball was dead; he didn't.
The U HAS TO SPRINT TO THE BALL and take charge; he didn't.
Posted on 9/15/13 at 11:04 am to MOT
nm
This post was edited on 9/15/13 at 11:05 am
Posted on 9/15/13 at 11:05 am to MOT
quote:So they lose.
The earliest they could have snapped the ball was with one second and according to the new rule that isn't even enough time anyway.
quote:I do understand that. You're the one who doesn't understand that it doesn't matter.
How do you not understand that?
Posted on 9/15/13 at 11:07 am to arrakis
quote:I could have sworn that I heard a really high-pitched sound coming from something in the WH's mouth that indicates that the ball is dead.
The WH HAS TO MAKE IT CLEAR to everyone the ball was dead; he didn't.
quote:Hard to sprint through human beings that are standing in the way. The U had to weave his way to the ball, and he did so just fine.
The U HAS TO SPRINT TO THE BALL and take charge; he didn't.
Posted on 9/15/13 at 11:10 am to ballscaster
quote:
I do understand that. You're the one who doesn't understand that it doesn't matter.
Obviously it doesn't matter because they lost and there is nothing anyone can do to change that. But we're discussing the incompetency of the umpire in not getting the ball ready for play prior to there only being one second on the clock. The officials clearly lost control and screwed it up. Yes, Wisconsin lost. But that doesn't mean it was handled correctly by the officials.
Posted on 9/15/13 at 11:13 am to ballscaster
quote:
The U had to weave his way to the ball, and he did so just fine
Yes he did. Then it took him 11 seconds of the game clock to mark the ball ready for play, and it should not have.
Posted on 9/15/13 at 11:21 am to ballscaster
quote:
I could have sworn that I heard a really high-pitched sound coming from something in the WH's mouth that indicates that the ball is dead.
No doubt he blew the whistle, but it's "hurry up" at the end of the game with massive crowd noise. The WH has to make sure everyone knows the QB killed the play. Both the U and the defense could not see the simulated/taking knee action by the QB.
Should the QB have handed the ball to the U after taking the knee?....you bet, but that doesn't change the officials' responsibility.
quote:
Hard to sprint through human beings that are standing in the way. The U had to weave his way to the ball, and he did so just fine.
So? It's his job to get to the ball ASAP. He didn't.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion, I good with that.
I've officiated football for 36 years and it's drilled into the crew to step up their performance at this juncture of the game.
They did not.
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