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Message

re: Should Mike Scioscia be fired?

Posted on 5/9/13 at 1:33 pm to
Posted by tduecen
Member since Nov 2006
161246 posts
Posted on 5/9/13 at 1:33 pm to
Just wait till Granderson, Tex, Jeter, and Arod return
Posted by OBUDan
Chicago
Member since Aug 2006
40723 posts
Posted on 5/9/13 at 1:35 pm to
Mike Trout's line in May:

.357/.400/.821

3 HR
2 2B
1 3B
1 SB
1 BB

There's nothing wrong with Mike Trout.

The problem is the Angels threw a bunch of cash at declining stars.

Pujols will probably be a good to very good hitter for the next 3-5 years, but he's getting paid like the best in the game.

Hamilton's decline came swiftly and could be seen at the end of last year. Now it's snowballing and he's not exactly a mentally strong type that can overcome that type of adversity. There's a halfway decent chance he's never a very good player again.

After those three, the lineup is goo. Howie Kendrick is okay. Trumbo is basically a worse version of Adam Dunn (when Adam Dunn was at his peak). The rest is just filler. They have utility guys playing every day at SS and 3B.

And their rotation is still a mess. Wilson, Hanson and Vargas are all towing the line around 100 with ERA+. There's reason to believe Weaver is declining as well.

They are just a ball of suck... and a lot of it could be forecast before they even took the field on opening day.
Posted by Quidam65
Q Continuum
Member since Jun 2010
20515 posts
Posted on 5/9/13 at 1:46 pm to
quote:

A's are overrated


Not necessarily. They tend to have two, sometimes three, good years in their runs before they run out of money and have to firesale the team. Last year was only the first year.

quote:

SEA and HOU are garbage


For the Astros that may be an insult to garbage. I thought Seattle would be better but they are settling in the middle of the pack.

quote:

And its not like the Rangers are that great.


They aren't. Yu is having to carry the load for the rotation, and his last two starts are showing that it's negatively affecting him (he should have a no-decision and a loss; fortunately the offense pulled it out so he got a win and a no-decision). Holland is still inconsistent but he may be turning things around.

But with Harrison and Lewis out (and Perez, though he was an unknown quantity this year) now we have problems. Tepesch is showing he was a one-start wonder. Grimm showed nothing last year and nothing this year. And then we have Ogando (or OH GOD NO) who should be in the bullpen.

The offense has several holes. Every outfielder not named Cruz or Baker is poor. Berkman is showing decline in power numbers (but his patience at the plate is a vast improvement over the prior #3 hitter--who was that again?--giving Beltre a hitter's chance every time).

But on the bright side, the rest of the offense is strong (Kinsler is way improved--not babysitting the prior #3 hitter--who was that again?--helps) and the bullpen is very strong, rarely blowing leads.

When Texas and Oakland match up we'll see who the alpha male of the division really is.
Posted by DEANintheYAY
LEFT COAST
Member since Jan 2008
31975 posts
Posted on 5/9/13 at 1:46 pm to
quote:

After those three, the lineup is goo. Howie Kendrick is okay. Trumbo is basically a worse version of Adam Dunn (when Adam Dunn was at his peak). The rest is just filler. They have utility guys playing every day at SS and 3B.



LoL. I think Trumbo is/will be much better than Dunn and Aybar is not a utility player.

Posted by Baloo
Formerly MDGeaux
Member since Sep 2003
49645 posts
Posted on 5/9/13 at 1:46 pm to
quote:

no input on Napoli for Wells trade that occurred.

i don't know about the rest of it, but that's clearly BS. Napoli was in Scioscia's doghouse big time, and his refusal to play Napoli is what caused the need to trade him in the first place. I'm always skeptical when guys after the fact start trying to get their story out there to blame someone else for the failures of a team, but Scioscia was clearly the #1 reason Napoli was traded. That makes me think this is a friendly journalist trying to spin facts in favor of a guy he likes.
Posted by tduecen
Member since Nov 2006
161246 posts
Posted on 5/9/13 at 1:48 pm to
That was on CNN/SI article couple days ago actually on the same topic we discussing now
Posted by Baloo
Formerly MDGeaux
Member since Sep 2003
49645 posts
Posted on 5/9/13 at 1:52 pm to
Right. It's a jornalist friendly to Scioscia trying to create a narrative that absolves him from blame of a move he clearly was the guiding force behind as it happened. I don't trust the post hoc rationalization at all. Scioscia wanted Napoli gone, and the GM obliged.
Posted by tduecen
Member since Nov 2006
161246 posts
Posted on 5/9/13 at 1:53 pm to
He may have wanted him gone, doubt he wanted him for Wells though
Posted by OBUDan
Chicago
Member since Aug 2006
40723 posts
Posted on 5/9/13 at 2:05 pm to
quote:

I think Trumbo is/will be much better than Dunn


Both were/are albatrosses in the field. They are raw power guys, with a major advantage to Dunn in the fact that he can actually draw a walk.

Dunn's career BA is 30 points lower than Trumbo's yet his OBP is is 60 points higher.

He struck out more, but he also walked way, way more.

They are pretty similar players and Dunn's numbers at Trumbo's age were nearly identical.

quote:

Aybar is not a utility player.


Fair enough. I may be discrediting him, but the bulk of his value comes from his defense. He's a capable starter, but he's nothing special.

This post was edited on 5/9/13 at 2:06 pm
Posted by SouljaBreauxTellEm
Mizz
Member since Aug 2009
29343 posts
Posted on 5/9/13 at 2:07 pm to
I know it's on their pitching mostly, but maybe it's time to part ways any ways.
Posted by DEANintheYAY
LEFT COAST
Member since Jan 2008
31975 posts
Posted on 5/9/13 at 3:55 pm to
quote:

Both were/are albatrosses in the field.



Uh, Trumbo is actually pretty solid at 1B and is far from a liability in the OF. Now you just talking out your arse.

Posted by The White Lobster
Member since Jul 2009
16764 posts
Posted on 5/9/13 at 4:14 pm to
Are you comparing Mike Trout to Geovanny Soto and Neftali Feliz?

Are you really giving the Angels credit for not overpaying Mike Trout after one good season? Do you understand how Major League Baseball works?
Posted by Moustache
GEAUX TIGERS
Member since May 2008
21657 posts
Posted on 5/9/13 at 4:19 pm to
quote:

He's got Andy Reid syndrome.


Yeah, I don't think it's this at all. It's been well documented that MS no longer has much or any input on player personnel. I don't understand how not spending any money on the bullpen or an innings eater in the rotation is the fault of scioscia.

It's not like he's fricking up the bullpen or the lineup. The "comfort" excuse is BS because a good portion of these guys are in their 1st or 2nd season with MS.
Posted by OBUDan
Chicago
Member since Aug 2006
40723 posts
Posted on 5/9/13 at 4:21 pm to
quote:

It's been well documented that MS no longer has much or any input on player personnel.


Pretty similar thing happened with Reid...

I'm just saying he's a solid to good manager who may need to move on. Very, very few managers can hang at one spot for their whole career and be successful.
Posted by Srbtiger06
Member since Apr 2006
29305 posts
Posted on 5/9/13 at 4:22 pm to
quote:


Are you really giving the Angels credit for not overpaying Mike Trout after one good season? Do you understand how Major League Baseball works?


Yes. He is.
Posted by OBUDan
Chicago
Member since Aug 2006
40723 posts
Posted on 5/9/13 at 4:26 pm to
quote:

Uh, Trumbo is actually pretty solid at 1B and is far from a liability in the OF. Now you just talking out your arse.


When you are looking to dump a guy in LF or on 1B, that pretty much says it all.

I'm not talking out of my arse so much as I was one of the few people who realized early that this Angels team was a pile of hot garbage.
Posted by DEANintheYAY
LEFT COAST
Member since Jan 2008
31975 posts
Posted on 5/9/13 at 4:28 pm to
quote:

I'm not talking out of my arse so much as I was one of the few people who realized early that this Angels team was a pile of hot garbage.



Still early. I have you on my list of people to check back with in September.
Posted by Baloo
Formerly MDGeaux
Member since Sep 2003
49645 posts
Posted on 5/9/13 at 4:28 pm to
quote:

Yeah, I don't think it's this at all. It's been well documented that MS no longer has much or any input on player personnel. I don't understand how not spending any money on the bullpen or an innings eater in the rotation is the fault of scioscia.

I don't think it's "well-documented". I think its a post hoc rationalization to distance him from blame. And some of it was clearly a lie. So I don't believe him when he says he has no input.

And you should be able to build a good pen without spending money (closer, excepted). That is absolutely on the manager. Good managers can piece together a decent pen with organizational soldiers. Big money free agents to staff a bullpen is A) an indictment of the manager and B) not effective anyway.

He is messing up the pen. The only two AL teams with a worse bullpen ERA are Tampa and Houston. And great, he can fill out a lineup card. That's wonderful, but that's a pretty low bar. A manager needs to squeeze as much production out of the talent on hand... and at this, he is failing. There is enough talent on hand to at least be a 500 squad, and he's 10 games under. He's absolutely on the hook for that. And I like Scioscia, but this is two straight years now.
Posted by Lester Earl
3rd Ward
Member since Nov 2003
291036 posts
Posted on 5/9/13 at 4:29 pm to
quote:

Not necessarily. They tend to have two, sometimes three, good years in their runs before they run out of money and have to firesale the team. Last year was only the first year.



they played over their head last year.

their pitching has been significantly worse. Redick proved he was a fluke and he pretty much carried their offense last year along with Cespedes
Posted by DEANintheYAY
LEFT COAST
Member since Jan 2008
31975 posts
Posted on 5/9/13 at 4:54 pm to
Well, regarding the bullpen, there have been a ton of injuries. I am sure he didn't think Michael Roth would have to be called up from AA to be in the bullpen, much less have to make an emergency start.
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