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Message
re: Paying players is a non-starter for the NCAA
Posted on 2/26/18 at 5:55 am to moneyg
Posted on 2/26/18 at 5:55 am to moneyg
This is a perfect time for the NCAA to grab some of their power and legitimacy back. The NBA and NCAA need to work together to fix this issue. I think that the 1 and done era has fast tracked the issues that college basketball is facing today. The reality is this. The NBA and NCAA need to change the rule to 3 years of college or strait to the NBA. The NBA needs to really strengthen the G-League for players who don't want to go to college and get paid to develop their talent. Let the NCAA get back to true student-athletes. One of the things that never gets talked about in the 1 and done era is that it has essentially become a huge academic fraud. These 1 and done players aren't going to school. It's a sham. Again, the NCAA should mandate that you either go to the Pro level or have to stay at least 3 years in college. That would really change the way 1 and done athletes view college. Paying college athletes would create MORE problems. #Metoo would become bigger than ever and the NCAA knows it.
This post was edited on 2/26/18 at 5:56 am
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Posted on 2/26/18 at 7:25 am to mizzoubuckeyeiowa
quote:
Welcome to communism. No wonder our Universities have become the most left wing and crazy...sports taught them communism. Do your job, we will pay you what we decide - regardless of market value.
You either don’t know what communism is or you don’t know what market value is. Or perhaps both.
In CFB, players have zero market value until they are three years removed from HS. It has nothing to do with “effort” or “talent”. Market value is what a guy can get if he chooses to go play elsewhere. These guys have no market value because there is no market for their talents...until they hit that 3 year mark. You can clearly see this with juniors who declare early. All of a sudden, they magically become millionaires after the NFL lets them into the market.
Communism, ironically, would be precisely what you’re proposing, which is to force universities to give cash comp to guys who have zero market value, and not only that, but to give everyone the same cash comp. Its straight out of a Karl Marx wet dream.
This post was edited on 2/26/18 at 7:28 am
Posted on 2/26/18 at 8:36 am to StupidBinder
quote:lol
If they want to get cash compensation, they’re free to not become students and find employment with someone who will give them what they want. And we’ll all wish them the best of luck.
Posted on 2/26/18 at 8:37 am to Bjorn Cyborg
quote:Keep those blinders on!!!
You are correct. People think these players have this huge market potential to make millions. They don’t.
What was Derrius Guice’s market value in August, 2017?
Zero
Posted on 2/26/18 at 8:48 am to shel311
quote:
Keep those blinders on!!!
Care to actually explain any of your positions? Or is “lol” all you’ve got?
Posted on 2/26/18 at 9:00 am to StupidBinder
quote:well then if that's the case, why is there an indirect market in recruiting for the top kids? Lets call the NFL and NBA communist too for supporting artificial restrictions on the market of football and basketball talents, and demand they end those artificial restrictions
In CFB, players have zero market value until they are three years removed from HS
Posted on 2/26/18 at 9:21 am to chalmetteowl
quote:
Lets call the NFL and NBA communist too for supporting artificial restrictions on the market of football and basketball talents, and demand they end those artificial restrictions
Two specific private companies are not "the market." If players want to go pro in their specific sports, they can. These private companies are entitled to enact whatever hiring standards they deem necessary to protect their leagues. Do you consider the medical profession to have "artificial restrictions?" What about other unions, such as Teamsters, or electrical or plumbers unions?
The NBA and NFL have their restrictions in place by their player's union.
There are multiple pro football leagues in North America and nearly 100 basketball leagues worldwide. No one is stopping ANYONE from going pro whenever they choose.
These may not be the best options, but no one is entitled to always have the best option.
Posted on 2/26/18 at 9:24 am to chalmetteowl
They are private businesses
They can do what they want, and they owe nothing to any of these players.
They can do what they want, and they owe nothing to any of these players.
Posted on 2/26/18 at 9:29 am to Bjorn Cyborg
quote:
Do you consider the medical profession to have "artificial restrictions?" What about other unions, such as Teamsters, or electrical or plumbers unions?
I don't know about the term "artificial," but unions and the like absolutely distort the market. At times, they do so to the detriment of the market as a whole.
Posted on 2/26/18 at 9:40 am to Crowknowsbest
Yes they can, but no one disputes that employers, unions, associations, etc., can set they standards to which people can enter into their employment.
If the Electricians Union said that they require a new electrician to be 21 years old, no one would dispute their right to do that.
Private companies all over the world have extremely arbitrary rules and requirements to work for them. The NBA has basically 1: Be one year removed from high school. (you don't have to go to college, as is often incorrectly stated. You can sit out the year and train).
The NBA has determined that it is not in the best interest of its teams to draft high school players. That is a valid concern and is neither arbitrary nor artificial.
If the Electricians Union said that they require a new electrician to be 21 years old, no one would dispute their right to do that.
Private companies all over the world have extremely arbitrary rules and requirements to work for them. The NBA has basically 1: Be one year removed from high school. (you don't have to go to college, as is often incorrectly stated. You can sit out the year and train).
The NBA has determined that it is not in the best interest of its teams to draft high school players. That is a valid concern and is neither arbitrary nor artificial.
Posted on 2/26/18 at 9:52 am to Bjorn Cyborg
quote:
If the Electricians Union said that they require a new electrician to be 21 years old, no one would dispute their right to do that.
I wouldn't dispute their right to set an age minimum to join their union. It's their union.
I would dispute their right to block people that aren't members of their union from working as an electrician. The union shouldn't be able to monopolize the labor force for an industry. Qualified people should have a right to work whether they are in the union or not. Certifications, education, etc. should be outside the union's control.
I think of basketball similarly.
Posted on 2/26/18 at 9:53 am to chalmetteowl
quote:
well then if that's the case, why is there an indirect market in recruiting for the top kids?
Because schools value having students who are good at football on their campuses.
I get that this comes off as disingenuous, there are plenty of guys who have no business on a college campus, but it doesn’t make the statement untrue. From the university’s perspective, a guys football talent is valuable only if they qualify academically. Being a 5 star means absolutely nothing if you’re bringing a D average and an 11 on the ACT to the table.
quote:
Lets call the NFL and NBA communist too for supporting artificial restrictions on the market of football and basketball talents, and demand they end those artificial restrictions
I have no issue with guys right out of HS playing pro ball. I’ve stated in this thread that I’d even be in favor of allowing kids to make endorsement deals while in school. What I’m saying is that it’s not the NCAAs responsibility or obligation to provide kids with an opportunity to play professionally.
Quite honestly, it’s not even the NBA or NFL’s responsiblily. It’s their league, they can make whatever eligibility rules they please, and it certainly doesn’t make them communists. Many corporations won’t hire you unless you’re 18, even if you’re legally allowed to work as young as 14. Are they communists too?
EDIT: Bjorn Cyborg beat me to it and summarized this very well.
This post was edited on 2/26/18 at 9:57 am
Posted on 2/26/18 at 10:06 am to Crowknowsbest
quote:
The union shouldn't be able to monopolize the labor force for an industry. Qualified people should have a right to work whether they are in the union or not.
I agree, and this is not happening. Just because the NBA or NFL has a rule, doesn't mean you can't play pro ball in another league.
If you are good enough at football, you can play Arena Ball, Canadian League, or dozens of other arena style or semi-pro leagues around North America, or even the world.
Just because one private company (the NFL) has a rule, doesn't mean you can't be a pro in another league. One of the problems with this whole discussion is people are equating the NFL and NBA as being "pro sports." But they are just single leagues in a worldwide sports economy.
Are they the best? Yes, but no one has a right to have access to the best.
Posted on 2/26/18 at 10:15 am to Bjorn Cyborg
quote:
Are they the best? Yes, but no one has a right to have access to the best.
It's not about the best, necessarily. It's about earning potential.
Being drafted into the NBA offers the most earning potential and most appealing opportunity to an elite 18 year old American basketball player. No other league is even reasonably close. Taking that a step further, banning 18 year olds from the league unfairly caps the earning potential of a qualified adult, in my opinion.
If you want to say that 18 year olds can be drafted and paid as highly as NBA players but must play a season in the G-League or whatever, I'm open to that discussion.
Posted on 2/26/18 at 10:34 am to Crowknowsbest
quote:wonder what would happen if the NBA joined with other pro basketball leagues around the world and set up their transfer system like soccer...
It's not about the best, necessarily. It's about earning potential.
Posted on 2/26/18 at 10:38 am to Crowknowsbest
You are letting your emotions get the best of you. Fairness is not an issue here.
Are you arguing that private business cannot set the standards for their employment?
Are you arguing that private business cannot set the standards for their employment?
Posted on 2/26/18 at 10:46 am to Bjorn Cyborg
quote:not when it's unreasonable pertaining to the actual qualifications of the job
Are you arguing that private business cannot set the standards for their employment?
Posted on 2/26/18 at 10:49 am to Bjorn Cyborg
quote:
Are you arguing that private business cannot set the standards for their employment?
The NBA isn't a standard private business. It is an umbrella organization that contains 30 organizations that can theoretically make player personnel decisions independently. If one of those wants to draft and pay an 18 year old, I think they should be allowed to do so.
My emotions don't have anything to do with it. I don't really have a dog in this fight.
Posted on 2/26/18 at 11:56 am to Crowknowsbest
quote:
If one of those wants to draft and pay an 18 year old, I think they should be allowed to do so.
It's your right to think that, however their player's union has developed and voted on these rules.
Just as the Teamsters have rules for who can join their union and organization, the NBA Players Association has rules.
If you want to abolish unions in this country, then I'm on your side. Otherwise, we are arguing about nothing.
They absolutely have that right. And they are absolutely exercising that right.
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