- My Forums
- Tiger Rant
- LSU Recruiting
- SEC Rant
- Saints Talk
- Pelicans Talk
- More Sports Board
- Fantasy Sports
- Golf Board
- Soccer Board
- O-T Lounge
- Tech Board
- Home/Garden Board
- Outdoor Board
- Health/Fitness Board
- Movie/TV Board
- Book Board
- Music Board
- Political Talk
- Money Talk
- Fark Board
- Gaming Board
- Travel Board
- Food/Drink Board
- Ticket Exchange
- TD Help Board
Customize My Forums- View All Forums
- Show Left Links
- Topic Sort Options
- Trending Topics
- Recent Topics
- Active Topics
Started By
Message
re: Michael Austin Riley. Soon to be MVP. Best 3B in the majors.
Posted on 7/23/22 at 11:10 pm to Hailstate15
Posted on 7/23/22 at 11:10 pm to Hailstate15
quote:
The only thing about the Braves is they will never be more mainstream than the dodgers, yanks, and Sox.
I don’t remember any of those teams having each of their games broadcast nationally for 34 years. Not sure you get more mainstream than that.
1
Posted on 7/23/22 at 11:18 pm to TigerOnTheMountain
quote:
I don’t remember any of those teams having each of their games broadcast nationally for 34 years.
Well yes but thats not happening again anytime soon.
frick Bally sports to fricking hell btw
Posted on 7/23/22 at 11:22 pm to SteelerBravesDawg
quote:
SteelerBravesDawg
Sorry to say, but you are getting owned by Lester in this thread. I would just bow out if I were you.
Posted on 7/23/22 at 11:31 pm to Hailstate15
Are you the one who had Riley as the All Time Greatest 3rd baseman on that post last week?
Posted on 7/23/22 at 11:32 pm to Damathe
That was me, but it was clearly a joke. He’s on quite a tear right now, though, and you never know how a career will turn out.
Posted on 7/24/22 at 12:04 am to SteelerBravesDawg
You are the best braves fan I have ever seen
Posted on 7/24/22 at 12:11 am to TigerOnTheMountain
quote:
dumpster fire that is the NL East.
Arguably the 2nd or 3rd toughest division in the league.
Posted on 7/24/22 at 1:00 am to Dale Murphy
Posted on 7/24/22 at 2:03 am to Lester Earl
quote:
He can’t win mvp or be the best 3B when he is 5th in WAR among 3b’s alone
Anyone who still thinks "WAR" is a legitimate metric, is out of touch with reality. Regardless of where you want to rank whoever, this isn't the way to do it.
This post was edited on 7/24/22 at 2:13 am
Posted on 7/24/22 at 2:43 am to Metaloctopus
quote:
Anyone who still thinks "WAR" is a legitimate metric, is out of touch with reality. Regardless of where you want to rank whoever, this isn't the way to do it.
Honest question here, because I’ve seen you make similar comments numerous times, do you think you are more in touch with the reality of how players are evaluated than Farhan Zaidi or Alex Anthopoulos?
quote:
”The main value, particularly on the position-player side, is to be able to capture all the contributions of the player and really do an apples-to-apples comparison. So you're not saying, 'This guy is a plus hitter, but he's below average on the bases and in the field.' We can just say he's a two Wins Above Replacement player, taking all that into account."
quote:
“We thought it provided the club a chance for good value. If we could keep him on the field we saw him potentially as a 4-5 win player and that’s what he was. Obviously WAR isn’t the end all be all and every club has their own value on individual players but we saw a unique opportunity to take a chance on a player who was going to be able to produce value well beyond what we were potentially paying and what wins (above replacement) are typically valued at on the open market.”.
Posted on 7/24/22 at 3:00 am to volfan30
quote:
Honest question here, because I’ve seen you make similar comments numerous times, do you think you are more in touch with the reality of how players are evaluated than Farhan Zaidi or Alex Anthopoulos?
I can tell you that no general manager worth his salt, just looks at WAR, and says "well that's our guy, because WAR says he's the best available".
It's an incredibly subjective formula, if you can even call it a formula, as it is a system that isn't based on any consistent starting point. To say that player X is worth 4 wins, or whatever number, assumes to know what the effect would be without the player, which is impossible to measure, considering you're having to compare this player against an unknown, invisible player. So what IS the basis? They say "we compare it against the average replacement player." Well who decides how many wins a replacement player is worth? What are they compared against? It's circular reasoning.
The questions that need to be asked are "what do his actual numbers say, and how reliable are those numbers" based on things like exit velocity, the ballpark he plays in, and so on. Those are metrics that are far more reliable. But instead of that, we have this silly system that attempts to throw a bunch of stats, many of which are highly subjective, into a blender, and then compare them to an ever changing baseline that is "the average replacement player" to form an all in one metric. WAR has been said, even by many of it's proponents, to do a poor job of representing defensive value.
So what are we doing with WAR? I think it's pretty obvious with our own eyes who the best players are, but if we're going to try to get to the bottom of where they rank, exactly, WAR should not be what we use. Maybe we should just accept that baseball is a wacky sport, and trying to discern between all of the numerous factors that separate luck from skill, is just not reasonable or realistic. The cream rises to the top, and consistently performs, whereas the pretenders do not. I'm sure Alex Anthopoulos signed Marcell Ozuna to a huge deal, with the idea that he was worth a certain amount of wins.
How's that working out for us? It's not the science that people want to make it out to be.
This post was edited on 7/24/22 at 3:31 am
Posted on 7/24/22 at 4:04 am to UltimateHog
quote:
Goldy is going to have to get hurt at this rate to not win it.
I told someone yesterday that the only way Goldy doesn't win it is if some freak injury happens or he just falls off a cliff. I don't see the latter happening.
I think it may come down to which player's team wins their division. If Riley can push the Braves past the Mets he may win it. Goldy has been incredible though. Him and Arenado have carried that offense. But Riley is doing exactly what he did last year now.
Posted on 7/24/22 at 4:05 am to Bucktail1
quote:
Yordan says hello
The frick does this even mean??? Astros fans are so ignorant
Posted on 7/24/22 at 4:09 am to Hailstate15
quote:
The only thing about the Braves is they will never be more mainstream than the dodgers, yanks, and Sox.
Good
Posted on 7/24/22 at 7:16 am to Metaloctopus
quote:
It's an incredibly subjective formula, if you can even call it a formula
I’d ask you what makes it subjective but by reading your post I already know your answer will be wrong lol
Posted on 7/24/22 at 7:38 am to Metaloctopus
quote:
So what are we doing with WAR? I think it's pretty obvious with our own eyes who the best players are
Posted on 7/24/22 at 7:52 am to Metaloctopus
quote:
Anyone who still thinks "WAR" is a legitimate metric, is out of touch with reality.
Posted on 7/24/22 at 8:12 am to Metaloctopus
quote:
It's an incredibly subjective formula, if you can even call it a formula
There is literally a formula
quote:
exit velocity
Giancarlo Stanton is firmly entrenching himself in the MVP discussion
quote:
To say that player X is worth 4 wins, or whatever number, assumes to know what the effect would be without the player, which is impossible to measure, considering you're having to compare this player against an unknown, invisible player. So what IS the basis? They say "we compare it against the average replacement player." Well who decides how many wins a replacement player is worth? What are they compared against? It's circular reasoning.
They are compared to the type of players that have been in AAA for a long time and come up to REPLACE an injured player. It’s the production level of those type of players. They are used as the metric because they are fairly common, whereas league average player in the majors are actually really valuable and are paid fairly well. If you compare to the average of the league you’ll have vets who aren’t superstars being seen as “bad” by the metric when the entire point is finding value in players, whether that is appreciating how great someone is (Trout) or seeing that there is more there than you might think without having to digest several columns of counting stats then comparing to people playing the same position across the league.
It’s not perfect by any means, I think the value adjustment on catchers is a little too strong (but there needs to be one because you can’t just go get a catcher anywhere) but it’s the best thing we have for player comparison. I don’t think a few tenths of a win are a be all end all in an argument comparing players and deciding on awards, but when you start getting into a full win or so difference then you might want to take it into account somewhat.
Teams are also using this a lot differently than we are. They don’t give a shite who the mvp is, they are using it to literally value the players and decide who is worth what and it’s pretty good for that.
This post was edited on 7/24/22 at 8:14 am
Posted on 7/24/22 at 8:19 am to TrussvilleTide
i doubt any major league front office is simply looking at fangraphs leaderboard and making decisions off that. but i feel pretty confident that every single front office has their own tools to assign value to a players overall performance. which is all WAR is
Posted on 7/24/22 at 8:29 am to WestCoastAg
Gotta tell ya: I feel smarter for having read this thread.
Page 5 of 7
Popular
Back to top
Follow TigerDroppings for LSU Football News