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Started By
Message
Mark Buehrle, Torii Hunter, Tim Hudson and Barry Zito are first time HOF finalists
Posted on 11/28/20 at 4:01 pm
Posted on 11/28/20 at 4:01 pm
I’m thinking all 4 belong in the Hall of Very Good but not in Cooperstown.
Thoughts?
Thoughts?
11
Posted on 11/28/20 at 4:07 pm to Paul Allen
yeah I don't think HOF'ers when I read that list..
Posted on 11/28/20 at 4:07 pm to Paul Allen
Zito shouldn’t be in the conversation with the other three
Posted on 11/28/20 at 4:10 pm to Paul Allen
Can we put Zito’s curveball in the HOF but leave him out of it?
Posted on 11/28/20 at 4:11 pm to Paul Allen
Great players, but not HOF material.
On a side - holy shite, I loved watching Hudson/Mulder/Zito in the early 2000s. frick I'm old
eta: Barry Zito #75 uni, FTW
On a side - holy shite, I loved watching Hudson/Mulder/Zito in the early 2000s. frick I'm old
eta: Barry Zito #75 uni, FTW
This post was edited on 11/28/20 at 4:12 pm
Posted on 11/28/20 at 4:13 pm to Paul Allen
quote:
Mark Buehrle, Torii Hunter, Tim Hudson
Were the stars of my fantasy baseball team around 2002.
Posted on 11/28/20 at 4:15 pm to SpartyGator
Hudson vs Mulder
Turner Field 2005
Cardinals at Braves
It was a great matchup
Turner Field 2005
Cardinals at Braves
It was a great matchup
Posted on 11/28/20 at 4:15 pm to Paul Allen
None of them belong. But all were very good players.
Posted on 11/28/20 at 4:18 pm to Paul Allen
Hudson and Hunter are absolutely hall of famers if you compare them to some of the other people who've gotten in. Hudson, in particular, was an extremely consistent top ten pitcher in all of baseball for about 12 years, before he started to fade. He gets overlooked because he never had the eye popping seasons.
Zito had a couple of monster years, but quickly fell off a cliff. He has no business being a finalist. Buehrle was like Jack Morris, minus the post-season dominance. An above average pitcher, but never top flight. I don't know what he's doing on this list. But Jack Morris is now in the hall. So anything is possible.
Zito had a couple of monster years, but quickly fell off a cliff. He has no business being a finalist. Buehrle was like Jack Morris, minus the post-season dominance. An above average pitcher, but never top flight. I don't know what he's doing on this list. But Jack Morris is now in the hall. So anything is possible.
Posted on 11/28/20 at 4:27 pm to Metaloctopus
Jack Morris aside from his post season titles, won more games in the 80's than any other pitcher in baseball.
Jack Morris also threw 100+ complete games more than Zito, Hudson, and Buehrle did combined.
Jack Morris also threw 100+ complete games more than Zito, Hudson, and Buehrle did combined.
Posted on 11/28/20 at 4:45 pm to TigerintheNO
Halls of Fame aren't exclusive.
That said, it feels weird to put some people in-- but for their era, really only Buehrle would be a truly odd inclusion.
That said, it feels weird to put some people in-- but for their era, really only Buehrle would be a truly odd inclusion.
Posted on 11/28/20 at 4:49 pm to Paul Allen
quote:
Tim Hudson and Barry Zito
2 of 3 Aces the A's had, but yeah, it was ALL money ball and their aTm GM.
Posted on 11/28/20 at 4:59 pm to Paul Allen
I think Torii Hunter is the closest but I don't think he gets in anytime soon.
Posted on 11/28/20 at 5:00 pm to TigerintheNO
quote:
Jack Morris aside from his post season titles, won more games in the 80's than any other pitcher in baseball.
Jack Morris also threw 100+ complete games more than Zito, Hudson, and Buehrle did combined.
"wins" for a pitcher is the dumbest stat in baseball. He had a career ERA of 3.90. Why do you think he won more games in that era than anyone else? Magic? Or, perhaps, playing on good teams?
As for complete games, Morris pitched in an era when pitchers were expected to go deep. Every good pitcher of his day were throwing complete games. Morris' overall effectiveness was not hall of fame worthy. He was good. In the post season, he was great. He got in the hall because of his post season stats. Which I think is dumb, considering how far from hall of fame caliber he was in the regular season.
And you'll note that I said Zito and Buehrle had no business being on the list. Hudson was much better than either of those guys.
Posted on 11/28/20 at 5:06 pm to Metaloctopus
quote:
Hudson and Hunter are absolutely hall of famers if you compare them to some of the other people who've gotten in.
Just because the Veterans Committee fricked up by inducting Harold Baines and Jack Morris doesn't mean the voters have to compound those mistakes by inducting more players who don't belong in the Hall of Fame.
Posted on 11/28/20 at 5:11 pm to Bench McElroy
quote:
Just because the Veterans Committee fricked up by inducting Harold Baines and Jack Morris doesn't mean the voters have to compound those mistakes by inducting more players who don't belong in the Hall of Fame.
I didn't say they "should". I'm simply stating that if those kind of guys can get in, there's no reason to believe Hudson and Hunter can't. But, I actually believe those two have a strong case.
I can't say the same for Baines, Morris, Raines, etc.
Posted on 11/28/20 at 5:29 pm to Metaloctopus
quote:
Buehrle was like Jack Morris, minus the post-season dominance. An above average pitcher, but never top flight. I don't know what he's doing on this list
I admit to being a Large Hall fan to a fault, but Buehrle is the exact kind of player that I would go to the HOF and be excited to see and reminisce over.
-Ace on a World Series winner
-Perfect Game + No Hitter
-Distinctive pitching style
He reminds me a bunch of Mike Mussina, just with worse analytics and better celebratory achievements. Because the current crop of writers cares more about analytics, Moose got in and Buehrle won't. And Andy Pettite won't. And Kevin Brown won't.
But its hard for me to look at those 4 players and say THIS guy definitely had a better career and was more talented than the other 3. I say that with Mike Mussina being one of my favorite players of all time.
This post was edited on 11/28/20 at 5:30 pm
Posted on 11/28/20 at 5:41 pm to GeauxMariners
quote:
yeah I don't think HOF'ers when I read that list..
I feel ya. They all had some great seasons and then some not so good seasons. A ton of All Star appearances and World Series wins. Zito won a Cy Young. They probably have better resumes than a lot of current HOF guys. Why does it feel so bleh?
Posted on 11/28/20 at 5:52 pm to Paul Allen
None of them are even close to being Hall of Famers. If Zito was completely healthy his entire career, I think he could've been in.
Posted on 11/28/20 at 6:32 pm to Metaloctopus
quote:
career ERA of 3.90
not bad, considering he pitched in the bandboxes of the AL
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