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re: LeBron James is only responsible for 1 NBA Finals Defeat
Posted on 4/28/20 at 3:13 pm to SammyTiger
Posted on 4/28/20 at 3:13 pm to SammyTiger
quote:
Different eras
The game today is played to maximize efficiency
That makes the game tougher, the opponents more difficult to defeat.
This post was edited on 4/28/20 at 3:14 pm
1
Posted on 4/28/20 at 3:14 pm to Goldrush25
You must be a little young to remember Terry.
Terry porter average 18 pt 9 assists on 41% from 3 and .515 fg%. terry was an excellent player
Terry porter average 18 pt 9 assists on 41% from 3 and .515 fg%. terry was an excellent player
Posted on 4/28/20 at 3:15 pm to Rep520
quote:
The Bulls had a better team every time.
Well, yeah. They had prime Jordan on the roster.
Posted on 4/28/20 at 3:15 pm to Boomshockalocka
I'm 40, just not brainwashed by that era.
Porter was a 2x All-star, nice player but he wasn't a HOFer.
Porter was a 2x All-star, nice player but he wasn't a HOFer.
Posted on 4/28/20 at 3:17 pm to Goldrush25
quote:
It always comes back to this misguided perception that the league was so deep and tough back then, yet I'm still waiting for the statistical evidence of it.
Jordan actually won in an expansion era, which always dilutes the talent pool. The Hornets, Heat, Magic and T-Wolves all had expansion drafts in the two years preceding MJ's first title.
Posted on 4/28/20 at 3:17 pm to RollTide1987
quote:
Well, yeah. They had prime Jordan on the roster.
That doesn't explain why there wasn't anyone else in their prime that could measure up to him.
There was no other mega-star but him. Today there are several.
Posted on 4/28/20 at 3:27 pm to Rep520
quote:
Jordan actually won in an expansion era, which always dilutes the talent pool. The Hornets, Heat, Magic and T-Wolves all had expansion drafts in the two years preceding MJ's first title.
And Toronto/Vancouver in 1995.
People ignore these facts. It's not to say that winning 6 championship in 6 tries isn't impressive, of course it is. But the league has matured since then.
Winning 11 like Russell did couldn't have happened in MJ's era, and winning 6 in an 8 year period couldn't happen in this era, not with the depth of talent and player mobility being what It is. Look at what GS assembled. People saw them winning 6 or more and they only got 3
This post was edited on 4/28/20 at 3:29 pm
Posted on 4/28/20 at 3:35 pm to Goldrush25
quote:
Some of those top 50 players wouldn't make the list today or would be further down the list from players that have come since then.
With the exception of Duncan, Kawhi, Steph, and KD, not a chance
quote:
We have to revise the historical context of what those Bulls teams did because we have new information.
And new rules and new training systems and better medicine and the AAU bball circuit and more emphasis on the three point shot etc this applies to all sports
quote:
We're looking at the players of then and comparing them to the current players.
Wouldn't be a fair or realistic fight from a talent perspective due the aforementioned elements
quote:
Today's depth of talent and quality of talent is greater.
yeah like anyone's gonna admit that Draymond Green's a better player than Michael Jordan or Larry Bird, more "talented" due the evolution of sports? sure, doesn't really move any needles though
quote:
Also Jordan WON all of his finals so the opponents net rating all decreased by playing them. For some of lebrons appearances, the opponents playoff net rating likely got better by being able to beat up on lebron. See spurs and warriors. the spurs went to 7 with the lowly mavs in rd 1. And then went on to wipe the floor w lebron.
Good point, Boom
This post was edited on 4/28/20 at 3:45 pm
Posted on 4/28/20 at 3:35 pm to Goldrush25
quote:
That makes the game tougher, the opponents more difficult to defeat.
Except Lebron isn't on a 90s team. Hes on a modern team too.
While todays NBA may have a competitive advantage over the style of play form the 90s, its still an equally level playing field
Looking back and dismissing a team that wasn't drillings 3 all the time as bad is fricking ignorant.
By definition, efficiency is supposed to make things easier. So its actually easier to play in todays game where instead of being asked to pull up and shoot from anywhere or get mauled under the basket you having more spacing and only have to work on a corner three. ITs just easier for everyone.
This post was edited on 4/28/20 at 4:04 pm
Posted on 4/28/20 at 3:44 pm to Rep520
quote:
I'll put it this way, post the team MJ beat that you feel was objectively better than the Bulls from a personnel standpoint.
91 Lakers with Magic, Worthy, Scott, Perkins, Divac, AC Green, Elden Campbell, Mychal Thompson
92 Blazers with Clyde, Buck Williams, Terry Porter, Kevin Duckworth, Cliff Robinson, Jerome Kersey, Danny Ainge coming off the bench, Rick Adelman on the sidelines
93 Suns had Tom fricking Chambers and Ainge coming off the bench along with the 93 MVP Sir Charles leading them
96 Sonics had Shawn Kemp, Gary Payton, Sam Perkins, Nate McMillan, Detlef Schrempf, Hersey Hawkins, Eric Snow on the bench, George Karl on the sidelines (though no one was beating the Bulls that season Jordan was clearly on a mission)
that's some pretty deep teams my man
This post was edited on 4/28/20 at 3:45 pm
Posted on 4/28/20 at 3:46 pm to Boomshockalocka
quote:
There is none. Bc you have to be able to add context to any numbers. Which you have shown an inability to do tbt.
DUHHHH Boom nailing it right on the head
Posted on 4/28/20 at 3:52 pm to ThePTExperience1969
quote:
Some of those top 50 players wouldn't make the list today or would be further down the list from players that have come since then.
With the exception of Duncan, Kawhi, Steph, and KD, not a chance
Uh, the NBA list you're referring to came out in 1996. In addition to the guys you named, Kobe, LeBron, Dirk, KG, Shaq, etc. are bumping people.
For instance, James Worthy was top 50 in 1996. He isn't now. That would drop the top 50 guys MJ faced in the Finals to Magic, (probably) Drexler, Barkley, Stockton and Malone.
In comparison, LeBron has faced Steph, KD, Duncan, Westbrook, KD, Harden and Kawhi. That's taking a realistic approach and not including guys like Klay, Parker and Ginobili.
MJ had a top 50 player in Pippen with him at all times. LeBron had one in Wade, and then it depends on how you see Kyrie.
Even by your top 50 metric, LeBron faced tougher competition with less alongside him than MJ.
Posted on 4/28/20 at 4:01 pm to PhillyFan1994
Sad flex to defend MaoBron
Posted on 4/28/20 at 4:06 pm to Rep520
quote:
Kobe, LeBron, Dirk, KG, Shaq, etc. are bumping people.
LOL Dirk
quote:
For instance, James Worthy was top 50 in 1996. He isn't now.
Still one of the all-time greats, particularly when he played
quote:
Magic, (probably) Drexler, Barkley, Stockton and Malone.
GP probably makes that list FIRST-BALLOT
quote:
MJ had a top 50 player in Pippen with him at all times.
basically created him, pushed him to become a winning player
quote:
LeBron had one in Wade, and then it depends on how you see Kyrie.
not to mention the other all-stars flanking him on his super teams
quote:
Even by your top 50 metric, LeBron faced tougher competition with less alongside him than MJ.
Never said LeBron didn't face top competition but Jordan's was no slouch either especially considering all those guys are hall of famers and most were considered highly enough to get named to the NBA 50 team at that particular point in time. Also, Bron played on two superteams, MJ played with Scottie and Rodman his last threepeat let's stop pretending LeBron played with less here.
Posted on 4/28/20 at 4:15 pm to ThePTExperience1969
quote:
91 Lakers with Magic, Worthy, Scott, Perkins, Divac, AC Green, Elden Campbell, Mychal Thompson
This is an example of how bad the revisionist history is.
Thompson was 36 and played in one game that series. AC was aging and averaged 5.8 ppg. Scott was aging and averaged 4.5 ppg.
Campbell and Vlade were 22. Vlade played fairly well, but Campbell played in 3 games for 33 min all series.
Magic, Worthy and Perkins were at the back end of their respective primes, but that was the core.
Both Worthy and Scott were injured all series and missed a full game that series too. There's a difference between names and who was good at a particular time.
You really think that Laker team was better than the Bulls with prime MJ, Pippen, Grant and Paxson and Cartwright still very solid?
Take MJ and Magic out. Pippen is the second best player in the series by a significant margin with Worthy hobbled. Paxson was far better than Scott. Grant was better than Perkins. Vlade was probably better than Cartwright. The Bulls bench with Levingston and Armstrong was better than AC and Teagle for the Lakers.
The Bulls were better across the board except the Vlade/Cartwright matchup.
Posted on 4/28/20 at 4:23 pm to Rep520
How old was fricking Duncan when Lebron played him?
He played most of those guys either before their prime
Or after their Prime
Duncan and Manu were both over 35
The Thunder’s Big 3 were 23, 23 and 22.
He had Bosh and Wade in their prime.
He played most of those guys either before their prime
Or after their Prime
Duncan and Manu were both over 35
The Thunder’s Big 3 were 23, 23 and 22.
He had Bosh and Wade in their prime.
Posted on 4/28/20 at 4:36 pm to SammyTiger
quote:
How old was fricking Duncan when Lebron played him?
He was not in his prime, but Parker was. Ginobili and Duncan were still effective.
Duncan was also still easily better than Wade in 2014. Wade averaged 15 ppg and 4 rpg on 43% shooting. Duncan had 15-10 on 57%.
Posted on 4/28/20 at 4:57 pm to Rep520
quote:
He was not in his prime, but Parker was. Ginobili and Duncan were still effective.
Thats not really the point.
Ginobli and Duncan were 6-9 years older than anyone in the Lakers starting 5. Besides Johnson they were at the latest end of their prime, but still in it.
Posted on 4/28/20 at 6:35 pm to ThePTExperience1969
quote:
MJ played with Scottie and Rodman his last threepeat let's stop pretending LeBron played with less here.
I'm going to say it again, Jordan retired in a few weeks before the '94 season started, and the Bulls won 55 games in the regular season, and took the eventual Eastern Conference champ Knicks to 7 games. Stop pretending the Bulls weren't a very good team without Jordan. Pippen was a star, he was absolutely a top 50 player of all time, and he proved it without Jordan. He would have been a star on any team in the league.
Rodman won 2 championships before he ever played with Jordan, and is a Hall of Famer.
Kerr went on to win more championships as well. Jordan is top 3 all time, and a case can be made for best ever but he played with a shite ton of talent. Anyone who says otherwise is a willfully ignorant nuthugger.
Posted on 4/28/20 at 6:46 pm to ThePTExperience1969
quote:
At least he won 2 games in a series against a team some consider among the greatest single-season teams of all-time, LeBron only led his Cavs to 1 win in two Finals against the KD Warriors
Lebron took that same Celtics team to game 7 with a much lesser Cavs team than Kobe had with the Lakers in 08. He dropped 45 pts in a game 7 losing effort and was killed for. Kobe's 08 lakers had at least 4 players better than Lebrons 2nd best player.
I guess if he had that mamba mentality and just laid down while taking a 40 pt beat down in a close out game then he would be viewed better.
You are hilarious lol.
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