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Message
re: Impending Cub Fire Sale
Posted on 7/31/21 at 9:03 am to stlslick
Posted on 7/31/21 at 9:03 am to stlslick
quote:
impressive dynasty they had
They won a title, played in 3 NLCS, made the playoffs 5 out of 6 years, won 3 division titles, and was 6-4 in playoff series. I mean, for the fricking Cubs that is some pretty heady stuff. Have you seen the Cubs history? Do you know how many postseason series they'd won in their entire existence up to that point? Three. One since 1908. Now, did they achieve what stupid arse ESPN predicted? No, but especially for the Cubs that was big time success they achieved.
1
Posted on 7/31/21 at 9:57 am to msudawg1200
….and they only missed Back to the Future II’s prediction of a championship by a year.
Posted on 8/1/21 at 12:13 am to GeauxColonels
We got 3 maybe 4 everyday position players 1-2 starting pitchers and a couple intriguing bullpen guys out of it. MLB.Com gave out grades and gave the Dodgers an A+ and the Cubs an A.
Turned a 5 year rebuild into 3.
Turned a 5 year rebuild into 3.
Posted on 8/1/21 at 12:23 am to ZenFNmaster
quote:
We got 3 maybe 4 everyday position players 1-2 starting pitchers and a couple intriguing bullpen guys out of i
Lol, we may have gotten 3 actual major league players out of it and two of those came in the kimbrel trade. And what starting pitchers did we get the 24 years old from the yankees that has not been above A ball nor had below a 4.35 era or the one from the A’s that has major control issues but does at least throw upper 90’s may be a bullpen guy. Maybe the Mets of, but his bat is amjor weakness but hey he’s 19 so there’s that. And the giants player we got for Bryant is a typical major league power guy in that he a .230 hitter. And none of these guys are having success in A ball, so yea good luck.
Posted on 8/1/21 at 8:05 am to razorbackfan4life
quote:
Sad couple of days.
Had to be done, but man.. That was the squad.
I hope they all have success in the future.
My feelings exactly - love all those guys and the memories they have provided me for a lifetime.
But that swing and miss - homer or nothing culture the last 4 years has been maddingly frustrating to watch.
It was time for culture change. Now we've improved the farm significantly, we already had some good young arms and the money will now be there to re-construct and offensive culture more conducive to consistency over boom or bust.
Will the Ricketts allow Jed the leeway to do so and spend - we'll see. I could understand some might be leery there.
But with guys like Howard and Brennen Davis coming up and money free now to get good free agents and maybe re-signing one of the old core and maybe one of the relievers like Chafin are Tepera the window to play competitive baseball sooner rather than later IMHO is still possible.
Posted on 8/1/21 at 8:23 am to Tiger Ugly
Good thoughts there. Cub fan for 55 years. Went to Wrigley for first game with my Dad and brothers in 1969. I have seen some miserable times with this organization.
Guys we have good owners now. Mr Rickets was smart enough to hire Theo and let baseball men run the organization. Trust me with this . The Wrigley family were not good owners. We had newspaper guys try to micromanage the team, that’s the reason Green quit.
Looks like we may have some good prospects now and money to boot.
Guys we have good owners now. Mr Rickets was smart enough to hire Theo and let baseball men run the organization. Trust me with this . The Wrigley family were not good owners. We had newspaper guys try to micromanage the team, that’s the reason Green quit.
Looks like we may have some good prospects now and money to boot.
Posted on 8/1/21 at 8:49 am to JimNat
quote:
Guys we have good owners now. Mr Rickets was smart enough to hire Theo and let baseball men run the organization. Trust me with this . The Wrigley family were not good owners. We had newspaper guys try to micromanage the team, that’s the reason Green quit.
Looks like we may have some good prospects now and money to boot.
I will say your opinion on the Ricketts is not shared by many Cub fans right now - but I do think it is for some politically motivated and for others knee-jerk emotional.
They did over-extend in their Wrigleyville building project and used that as a convenient excuse to halt spending last year when no attendance crushed their bottom line. In my view they could have logically determined the revenue stream would return and spend accordingly.
I don't fault the Darvish deal in that he was a 35-year old injury prone starter but I thought they possibly could have gotten better return and giving up Carintini in the deal proved to be very costly.
But they spent before this (even in 2019 they went and got Kimbrel and Castellanos) and I think they will spend now, but they key is to spend wisely - no more Heyward/Chatwood type contracts. That's on Jed to use the money wisely now, let's see what he does with the prospect capital and abundant cap money.
Posted on 8/1/21 at 9:05 am to BigPerm30
Just checking, but they do still have enough active players to field a team, right? It's insane what they look like today compared to a week ago.
Posted on 8/1/21 at 9:30 am to Tiger Ugly
Good insight there. Rickets spent 400 million of his own money to rebuild Wrigley field and areas outside of ballpark. I think he now owns most of the roof tops. That is slot of money. The clubhouse and park were horrible till he did this. My point is that the Rickett family are good owners. I think the problem with a lot of people is that the father is very conservative in his political views, as you stated. I have read where Tom Ricketts is a true fan of baseball and the Cubs even before his family owned them.
Posted on 8/1/21 at 10:35 am to tigermike5
quote:
Lol, we may have gotten 3 actual major league players out of it and two of those came in the kimbrel trade. And what starting pitchers did we get the 24 years old from the yankees that has not been above A ball nor had below a 4.35 era or the one from the A’s that has major control issues but does at least throw upper 90’s may be a bullpen guy. Maybe the Mets of, but his bat is amjor weakness but hey he’s 19 so there’s that. And the giants player we got for Bryant is a typical major league power guy in that he a .230 hitter. And none of these guys are having success in A ball, so yea good luck.
You have to understand that all minor leaguers missed a year of development with Covid. So some are still a class behind
Four of the guys are already slotted in the Cubs top 11 prospects.
Madrigal is a 3-4 WAR player over a full season.
Heuer has already pitched in the show.
For trading a bunch of expirings, it wasn’t all that bad
Posted on 8/1/21 at 11:12 am to JimNat
quote:
I think the problem with a lot of people is that the father is very conservative in his political views, as you stated. I have read where Tom Ricketts is a true fan of baseball and the Cubs even before his family owned them.
That is absolutely an issue for some - and it is perpetuated by a segment of the old guard Cubs beat reporters like Gordon Wittenmeyer who are most certainly not conservative and thinly and not so convincingly veil that sentiment by taking a comment here or there out of context Re: baseball business to attack them, when in reality their real beef with them is the politics.
Now again, I think the pandemic time money dump was a bit short-sighted (laid off some offers staffers for example) and I can see some criticism there, but I think they will spend this offseason. Spending wisely will again be up to Jed.
This post was edited on 8/1/21 at 11:19 am
Posted on 8/1/21 at 12:21 pm to Lester Earl
quote:
You have to understand that all minor leaguers missed a year of development with Covid. So some are still a class behind
Four of the guys are already slotted in the Cubs top 11 prospects.
Madrigal is a 3-4 WAR player over a full season.
Heuer has already pitched in the show.
For trading a bunch of expirings, it wasn’t all that bad
Lol, cool you mentioned two of the guys I said we got in the kimbrel trade that 2 of the guarantees Mlb, the o key other one is maybe crowe, the rest will be career minor leaguers or at best journey man. After Crowe the only person that maybe has potential as a bullpen guy is the pitcher we got from the A’s bc he throws upper 90s. We got zero top 100 prospects, and who cares where they slotted in out terrible farm, that’s another indictment of shitty arse hoyer and it was happens when you basically have let you scouting department go and have shite scouts. So tell me who you think will actually contribute at a major leagues level than madrigal and heuer who were by far the best players we got for a rental. Ps, we gave up better prospects last year when trading for castellanos who was a rental, than what we received for Bryant and rizzo.
Posted on 8/1/21 at 12:24 pm to tigermike5
I am not a Cubs fan but it’s hard to look at what you guys had done the past couple years and what you got in these deals and not see it as a win long term. Your system was already much improved and now it’s probably one of the best in baseball. You can see the next core in there and it’s a franchise that’s going to spend money to supplement it.
Trading away cornerstones like that is brutal but I think you’ll look back on it in a few years as a great decision. It was a sellers deadline and an ideal time to strike
Trading away cornerstones like that is brutal but I think you’ll look back on it in a few years as a great decision. It was a sellers deadline and an ideal time to strike
This post was edited on 8/1/21 at 12:25 pm
Posted on 8/1/21 at 12:35 pm to tigermike5
The guy you are trashing from the Giants, Canario, just made 21 & is a career 276/363/486 guy
Pete Crow Armstrong has played 6 minor league games in his career. Imagine thinking you know what he is. He’s still a teenager
Alcantara is 19, too.
Do you have any idea how development works?
Pete Crow Armstrong has played 6 minor league games in his career. Imagine thinking you know what he is. He’s still a teenager
Alcantara is 19, too.
Do you have any idea how development works?
Posted on 8/2/21 at 6:34 am to ShaneTheLegLechler
quote:
I am not a Cubs fan but it’s hard to look at what you guys had done the past couple years and what you got in these deals and not see it as a win long term. Your system was already much improved and now it’s probably one of the best in baseball. You can see the next core in there and it’s a franchise that’s going to spend money to supplement it.
I think most outside of the die hard Cub fans like me - who are either star struck with the heroes we lost are ate up with hating the Ricketss - I think most outside that circle agree with you - in fact everyone I've read that's weighed in on it says this was the right thing and the best thing - a win for the organization - or certainly better than holding on and overpaying that core group that's quite frankly struggled the last 4 years.
Posted on 8/2/21 at 10:32 am to Tiger Ugly
I'm a Cubs fans who likes the Ricketts. Why wouldn't I? They brought a WS to the Cubs. They've invested heavily in Mesa and in Wrigleyville and took on a lot of debt to do so. Covid put a pinch in the cash flow, I understand the business side. They have demonstrated their willingness to spend into the luxury tax to put a winner on the field so I will give them the benefit of the doubt and not call them cheap.
It hurts losing these players but the truth is they weren't getting it done. The last couple of years there has been questions about effort and being prepared. Now these guys leave and instantly start raking for their new clubs. I will be very interested to see how these guys perform for their new teams. I hope they do well but then I will be asking if they really were giving their best efforts for the Cubs post WS, or are they now focusing because it's a FA year and they have to impress new teams.
The Cubs have a lot of options moving forward and have some prospects to work with. I just want to get to a place where these contracts are staggered and we can continually turn over the roster on the fly and be perennial contenders instead of the tear down, rebuild model we seem to be following now.
It hurts losing these players but the truth is they weren't getting it done. The last couple of years there has been questions about effort and being prepared. Now these guys leave and instantly start raking for their new clubs. I will be very interested to see how these guys perform for their new teams. I hope they do well but then I will be asking if they really were giving their best efforts for the Cubs post WS, or are they now focusing because it's a FA year and they have to impress new teams.
The Cubs have a lot of options moving forward and have some prospects to work with. I just want to get to a place where these contracts are staggered and we can continually turn over the roster on the fly and be perennial contenders instead of the tear down, rebuild model we seem to be following now.
Posted on 8/2/21 at 12:34 pm to SoDakHawk
quote:I think there has been a concerted effort among the Chicago media covering the Cubs to villainize the Ricketts...IMHO much of it for political reasons masquerading as other things. And many Cub fans have accepted that narrative right or wrong.
I'm a Cubs fans who likes the Ricketts. Why wouldn't I?
quote:
They've invested heavily in Mesa and in Wrigleyville and took on a lot of debt to do so. Covid put a pinch in the cash flow, I understand the business side. They have demonstrated their willingness to spend into the luxury tax to put a winner on the field so I will give them the benefit of the doubt and not call them cheap.
They absolutely over-extended on their Wrigleyville project and got pinched when the crowds were no longer there. I think they could have reasonable projected the cash flow would return and spend accordingly (not laying off 100 office employees for example), but the narrative that they won't spend now I think is ridiculous (they did before up to 2019) and again is being perpetuated by some media folks with more political axes to grind than anything. They will spend, Jed just has to spend wisely - again....no more Chatwood/Heyward debacles.
quote:
It hurts losing these players but the truth is they weren't getting it done.
100% agree, IMHO it's overdue. This team has been boom or bust the last 4 years and their last two playoff appearances were an embarrassment to offensive baseball. It's time for culture change and again, all those who study this for a living said what the Cubs did was a huge step in the right direction - now just need to spend the money we have wisely...cause I do think they will spend.
Posted on 8/2/21 at 12:46 pm to Tiger Ugly
Agreed that moves needed to be made. Hard to justify y’all white knighting for the Ricketts who play both sides of the political aisle. Need to put money in the on field product rather than manipulating elections.
Posted on 8/2/21 at 5:13 pm to houndstoothornet
quote:
Agreed that moves needed to be made. Hard to justify y’all white knighting for the Ricketts who play both sides of the political aisle. Need to put money in the on field product rather than manipulating elections.
Not white knighting here - just giving some perspective from both sides as the vast majority via the press have already thoroughly trashed and set the agenda on the Ricketts and most have bought into without question. And they may play both sides but the Chicago media has focused on only one.
Now I don't give a chit about that, I don't have a dog in that fight but ALOT do.
I pointed out they conveniently scapegoated the 2020 season when they could have reasonably assumed the income stream would return and spend accordingly...they did not including laying off 100 office workers IMHO unnecessarily. Pointed out that too. Would not call that white knighting.
But they have spent before and IMHO will spend again. And the press in Chicago does have an agenda against them, especially a few prominent old guard Cub beat writers.
Posted on 8/2/21 at 5:50 pm to diremustang
quote:ay but that rain delay speech tho
what Jason Heyward does to a team
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