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Whole life - I know

Posted on 9/16/21 at 12:01 pm
Posted by GeauxTigers777
Member since Oct 2007
1571 posts
Posted on 9/16/21 at 12:01 pm
When would you consider whole life benefitial as a piece of a retirement plan?

If someone were to have maxed their 401k, rollover roth,529s, and contributing significantly monthly to a taxable account, would you see value in whole life as a non-market dependent non-taxable resource?

In this scenario, presume the actual life insurance portion is a negligible aspect.
This post was edited on 9/16/21 at 12:02 pm
Posted by Hopeful Doc
Member since Sep 2010
14942 posts
Posted on 9/16/21 at 12:15 pm to
I would basically only consider it as a legacy-delivery vehicle if I were worth more than the federal estate tax exemption.
Posted by GeauxTigers777
Member since Oct 2007
1571 posts
Posted on 9/16/21 at 12:31 pm to
So no consideration in using it as an additional post tax/roth type retirement option?
Posted by Hopeful Doc
Member since Sep 2010
14942 posts
Posted on 9/16/21 at 12:48 pm to
quote:

So no consideration


From me? No.

I think the yield of a taxable long term is going to win out short of big changes to one or both types of accounts.


This becomes an exception if I’m planning on an estate worth more than can be passed to heirs upon my death. Right now, that’s $23.4MM or so (I’m married). It could be as low as $11MM by year’s end.
Posted by vistajay
Member since Oct 2012
2488 posts
Posted on 9/16/21 at 1:53 pm to
I got one because my term policy expired at end of March 2020 when it was difficult to see a doctor for a new term policy. I could roll into a whole life with my current insurer without a new physical, so that's what I did. I did not want to go bare on life insurance during COVID. I'll probably go through the process of qualifying for another term policy soon, then drop the whole life.
Posted by LSUFanHouston
NOLA
Member since Jul 2009
37007 posts
Posted on 9/16/21 at 2:11 pm to
quote:

would you see value in whole life as a non-market dependent non-taxable resource?


Non-market dependent meaning the dividends are not tied to a market component?
Posted by Lazy But Talented
Member since Aug 2011
14438 posts
Posted on 9/16/21 at 2:20 pm to
Another related question:

I've met with 2 different financial advisors recently. Are there financial advisors that don't harp solely on whole life policies?

We're young, no dependents, and make a decent living. I just want someone that can explain possible options for us going forward. I'm not understanding how after all of the info I've read about retirement and wealth management, I've never seen insurance policies be the main thing spoken about (if at all).

Can someone in layman terms explain how and why someone would use these whole life policies? I think I understand it can protect some of your assets during a downturn, but wouldn't you be better off pouring that money into more assets (real estate for example) instead of into an insurance policy for years and years?
This post was edited on 9/16/21 at 2:23 pm
Posted by BestBanker
Member since Nov 2011
17474 posts
Posted on 9/16/21 at 2:26 pm to
quote:

So no consideration in using it as an additional post tax/roth type retirement option?

You're going to get a wide variety of replies.

Yes. I use my life insurance policy cash for investment moves. It's not a roth, but it does create multiple income tax benefits.

#nbe4explainthemalltome
Posted by GeauxTigers777
Member since Oct 2007
1571 posts
Posted on 9/16/21 at 3:42 pm to
I can see both sides of the coin. If you are getting a 5% return on the whole life, technically you are under performing the market for a 20 year time frame and therefore you have a potential significantly less balance to pull from in retirement.

The other side is that during retirement, the whole life gives you another post tax avenue to pull from to allow you to manage your taxable income. It also allows you to have equity to draw from during a market downturn.
Posted by Shepherd88
Member since Dec 2013
4579 posts
Posted on 9/16/21 at 4:34 pm to
I would use a G-VUL 9.9/10 over a WL policy. But permanent insurance is still a niche part of a portfolio.
Posted by EA6B
TX
Member since Dec 2012
14754 posts
Posted on 9/16/21 at 5:30 pm to
quote:

I've met with 2 different financial advisors recently. Are there financial advisors that don't harp solely on whole life policies?


You met with two insurance salesman that happen to be financial advisors. None of the fee based FAs I have ever consulted with sell insurance products.
Posted by BestBanker
Member since Nov 2011
17474 posts
Posted on 9/16/21 at 6:46 pm to
quote:

If you are getting a 5% return on the whole life, technically you are under performing the market for a 20 year time frame

I treat it like a bond.
Posted by GeauxTigers777
Member since Oct 2007
1571 posts
Posted on 9/16/21 at 7:34 pm to
This is similar to how I would approach it. It would be approximately 10% of my investment portfolio. Just not sure if I am committing to the principal of it. Even after maxing other options.
Posted by meansonny
ATL
Member since Sep 2012
25542 posts
Posted on 9/16/21 at 8:14 pm to
quote:


In this scenario, presume the actual life insurance portion is a negligible aspect


That is your big no.

If life insurance has benefits for you, then there may be justification for the cost of insurance built into the policy. If life insurance isnt important, think of this as an investment vehicle with 4 times the fees of primerica with a conservative tax deferred return.
This post was edited on 9/16/21 at 8:15 pm
Posted by Marcus Aurelius
LA
Member since Oct 2020
3900 posts
Posted on 9/16/21 at 9:30 pm to
Outside of some Estate Planning that is above my paygrade, for the average Joe I can think of no good reason to buy Whole Life. I think it is one of the biggest scams in US history. When you are younger and have a family and kids, typically you need more life insurance than you can afford with Whole Life. When you are older, the average Joe will have less need ... kids are gone, house is paid for, etc.

Posted by saderade
America's City
Member since Jul 2005
25726 posts
Posted on 9/16/21 at 11:20 pm to
quote:

I've met with 2 different financial advisors recently. Are there financial advisors that don't harp solely on whole life policies?

These are salesmen that sell these products and they harp on them because the policies make them a lot of money.
Posted by dawg23
Baton Rouge, La
Member since Jul 2011
5065 posts
Posted on 9/20/21 at 12:34 pm to
quote:

Are there financial advisors that don't harp solely on whole life policies?
They are rare, because the commission is so high.

This link Whole Life Insurance Answers is from a blog that is primarily aimed at high income and/or high net worth people (like doctors). But the advice is valid for anyone.
Posted by ODP
Conroe
Member since Oct 2015
1938 posts
Posted on 9/20/21 at 1:11 pm to
quote:

I've met with 2 different financial advisors recently. Are there financial advisors that don't harp solely on whole life policies?


Hilarious, how someone sticks financial advisor behind their name and people automatically trust their motives. Like others have said, FAs are just salespeople, like the ones on car lots. Car salespeople push extended warranties b/c it makes them more commission just like FAs push whole life.

Reminds me of the time, a StateFarm agent tried pushing life insurance for my kids. It made no sense and the better option was just to invest those premiums in a 529.
This post was edited on 9/20/21 at 1:17 pm
Posted by FlyingTiger1955
Member since Jan 2019
5765 posts
Posted on 9/20/21 at 3:32 pm to
No, buy term and invest the difference. Whole life is a rip off and is sold only because the agent gets 50% of the first year premium as commission.
Posted by slackster
Houston
Member since Mar 2009
84609 posts
Posted on 9/20/21 at 3:41 pm to
quote:

No, buy term and invest the difference. Whole life is a rip off and is sold only because the agent gets 50% of the first year premium as commission.


Whole life is sold because people make bad decisions with their money all the time. The commission’s obviously help, but people take ridiculous guarantees and ignore the true costs on their money all the time.
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