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Whole life - I know
Posted on 9/16/21 at 12:01 pm
Posted on 9/16/21 at 12:01 pm
When would you consider whole life benefitial as a piece of a retirement plan?
If someone were to have maxed their 401k, rollover roth,529s, and contributing significantly monthly to a taxable account, would you see value in whole life as a non-market dependent non-taxable resource?
In this scenario, presume the actual life insurance portion is a negligible aspect.
If someone were to have maxed their 401k, rollover roth,529s, and contributing significantly monthly to a taxable account, would you see value in whole life as a non-market dependent non-taxable resource?
In this scenario, presume the actual life insurance portion is a negligible aspect.
This post was edited on 9/16/21 at 12:02 pm
Posted on 9/16/21 at 12:15 pm to GeauxTigers777
I would basically only consider it as a legacy-delivery vehicle if I were worth more than the federal estate tax exemption.
Posted on 9/16/21 at 12:31 pm to Hopeful Doc
So no consideration in using it as an additional post tax/roth type retirement option?
Posted on 9/16/21 at 12:48 pm to GeauxTigers777
quote:
So no consideration
From me? No.
I think the yield of a taxable long term is going to win out short of big changes to one or both types of accounts.
This becomes an exception if I’m planning on an estate worth more than can be passed to heirs upon my death. Right now, that’s $23.4MM or so (I’m married). It could be as low as $11MM by year’s end.
Posted on 9/16/21 at 1:53 pm to GeauxTigers777
I got one because my term policy expired at end of March 2020 when it was difficult to see a doctor for a new term policy. I could roll into a whole life with my current insurer without a new physical, so that's what I did. I did not want to go bare on life insurance during COVID. I'll probably go through the process of qualifying for another term policy soon, then drop the whole life.
Posted on 9/16/21 at 2:11 pm to GeauxTigers777
quote:
would you see value in whole life as a non-market dependent non-taxable resource?
Non-market dependent meaning the dividends are not tied to a market component?
Posted on 9/16/21 at 2:20 pm to GeauxTigers777
Another related question:
I've met with 2 different financial advisors recently. Are there financial advisors that don't harp solely on whole life policies?
We're young, no dependents, and make a decent living. I just want someone that can explain possible options for us going forward. I'm not understanding how after all of the info I've read about retirement and wealth management, I've never seen insurance policies be the main thing spoken about (if at all).
Can someone in layman terms explain how and why someone would use these whole life policies? I think I understand it can protect some of your assets during a downturn, but wouldn't you be better off pouring that money into more assets (real estate for example) instead of into an insurance policy for years and years?
I've met with 2 different financial advisors recently. Are there financial advisors that don't harp solely on whole life policies?
We're young, no dependents, and make a decent living. I just want someone that can explain possible options for us going forward. I'm not understanding how after all of the info I've read about retirement and wealth management, I've never seen insurance policies be the main thing spoken about (if at all).
Can someone in layman terms explain how and why someone would use these whole life policies? I think I understand it can protect some of your assets during a downturn, but wouldn't you be better off pouring that money into more assets (real estate for example) instead of into an insurance policy for years and years?
This post was edited on 9/16/21 at 2:23 pm
Posted on 9/16/21 at 2:26 pm to GeauxTigers777
quote:
So no consideration in using it as an additional post tax/roth type retirement option?
You're going to get a wide variety of replies.
Yes. I use my life insurance policy cash for investment moves. It's not a roth, but it does create multiple income tax benefits.
#nbe4explainthemalltome
Posted on 9/16/21 at 3:42 pm to BestBanker
I can see both sides of the coin. If you are getting a 5% return on the whole life, technically you are under performing the market for a 20 year time frame and therefore you have a potential significantly less balance to pull from in retirement.
The other side is that during retirement, the whole life gives you another post tax avenue to pull from to allow you to manage your taxable income. It also allows you to have equity to draw from during a market downturn.
The other side is that during retirement, the whole life gives you another post tax avenue to pull from to allow you to manage your taxable income. It also allows you to have equity to draw from during a market downturn.
Posted on 9/16/21 at 4:34 pm to GeauxTigers777
I would use a G-VUL 9.9/10 over a WL policy. But permanent insurance is still a niche part of a portfolio.
Posted on 9/16/21 at 5:30 pm to Lazy But Talented
quote:
I've met with 2 different financial advisors recently. Are there financial advisors that don't harp solely on whole life policies?
You met with two insurance salesman that happen to be financial advisors. None of the fee based FAs I have ever consulted with sell insurance products.
Posted on 9/16/21 at 6:46 pm to GeauxTigers777
quote:
If you are getting a 5% return on the whole life, technically you are under performing the market for a 20 year time frame
I treat it like a bond.
Posted on 9/16/21 at 7:34 pm to BestBanker
This is similar to how I would approach it. It would be approximately 10% of my investment portfolio. Just not sure if I am committing to the principal of it. Even after maxing other options.
Posted on 9/16/21 at 8:14 pm to GeauxTigers777
quote:
In this scenario, presume the actual life insurance portion is a negligible aspect
That is your big no.
If life insurance has benefits for you, then there may be justification for the cost of insurance built into the policy. If life insurance isnt important, think of this as an investment vehicle with 4 times the fees of primerica with a conservative tax deferred return.
This post was edited on 9/16/21 at 8:15 pm
Posted on 9/16/21 at 9:30 pm to GeauxTigers777
Outside of some Estate Planning that is above my paygrade, for the average Joe I can think of no good reason to buy Whole Life. I think it is one of the biggest scams in US history. When you are younger and have a family and kids, typically you need more life insurance than you can afford with Whole Life. When you are older, the average Joe will have less need ... kids are gone, house is paid for, etc.
Posted on 9/16/21 at 11:20 pm to Lazy But Talented
quote:These are salesmen that sell these products and they harp on them because the policies make them a lot of money.
I've met with 2 different financial advisors recently. Are there financial advisors that don't harp solely on whole life policies?
Posted on 9/20/21 at 12:34 pm to Lazy But Talented
quote:They are rare, because the commission is so high.
Are there financial advisors that don't harp solely on whole life policies?
This link Whole Life Insurance Answers is from a blog that is primarily aimed at high income and/or high net worth people (like doctors). But the advice is valid for anyone.
Posted on 9/20/21 at 1:11 pm to Lazy But Talented
quote:
I've met with 2 different financial advisors recently. Are there financial advisors that don't harp solely on whole life policies?
Hilarious, how someone sticks financial advisor behind their name and people automatically trust their motives. Like others have said, FAs are just salespeople, like the ones on car lots. Car salespeople push extended warranties b/c it makes them more commission just like FAs push whole life.
Reminds me of the time, a StateFarm agent tried pushing life insurance for my kids. It made no sense and the better option was just to invest those premiums in a 529.
This post was edited on 9/20/21 at 1:17 pm
Posted on 9/20/21 at 3:32 pm to GeauxTigers777
No, buy term and invest the difference. Whole life is a rip off and is sold only because the agent gets 50% of the first year premium as commission.
Posted on 9/20/21 at 3:41 pm to FlyingTiger1955
quote:
No, buy term and invest the difference. Whole life is a rip off and is sold only because the agent gets 50% of the first year premium as commission.
Whole life is sold because people make bad decisions with their money all the time. The commission’s obviously help, but people take ridiculous guarantees and ignore the true costs on their money all the time.
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