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PIMCO Funds Explained

Posted on 6/17/13 at 9:13 am
Posted by CQQ
Member since Feb 2006
17048 posts
Posted on 6/17/13 at 9:13 am
I'm looking at my wife's 401k and trying to move her away from the Target Date Fund she's currently investing in. One of her options is PTRAX, PIMCO Total Return Admin. Turnover is 380% but it's a 5* Silver on Morningstar. Can someone explain exactly what this is, what bonds are, and why or why not this is a good/bad option?
Posted by BennyAndTheInkJets
Middle of a layover
Member since Nov 2010
5858 posts
Posted on 6/17/13 at 9:29 am to
No problem. I'll get back and edit this post in a few hours.
Posted by Janky
Team Primo
Member since Jun 2011
35957 posts
Posted on 6/17/13 at 9:30 am to
Are you going to use other funds as well? This is an intermediate bond fund.
Posted by CQQ
Member since Feb 2006
17048 posts
Posted on 6/17/13 at 9:34 am to
My initial thought was to do what was recommended for me. 30% lg, 30% mid, 20% small, 20% int'l or some variation. Her fund options don't appear to be as good as mine but I think I've found some decent ones.
Posted by CQQ
Member since Feb 2006
17048 posts
Posted on 6/17/13 at 9:38 am to
quote:

This is an intermediate bond fund.


Can you explain when you have time?
Posted by Janky
Team Primo
Member since Jun 2011
35957 posts
Posted on 6/17/13 at 9:39 am to
quote:

30% lg, 30% mid, 20% small, 20% int'l or


I don't want to step on anyone's toes, but 50%small/mid seems a little high to me.

Benny will be the absolute best person to listen to with regards to the fund posted in the original post.
Posted by CQQ
Member since Feb 2006
17048 posts
Posted on 6/17/13 at 9:41 am to
quote:

I don't want to step on anyone's toes, but 50%small/mid seems a little high to me.


Do you have a better break down? I trust your advice.
Posted by Janky
Team Primo
Member since Jun 2011
35957 posts
Posted on 6/17/13 at 9:50 am to
quote:

I trust your advice


Oh, you poor soul.

If you are wanting a basic aggressive model it would be something like this in my opinion:

Lg= 48%
Smid= 28%
Int'l= 17%
Alts=5-7%

Now, this can be tweaked in many different ways but it is a pretty good starting point. I have never seen a model that calls for 50% in smid. Maybe some others can chime in.
Posted by CQQ
Member since Feb 2006
17048 posts
Posted on 6/17/13 at 10:08 am to
quote:

Oh, you poor soul.


Posted by battscave
Member since Apr 2013
253 posts
Posted on 6/17/13 at 11:01 am to
quote:

Can you explain when you have time?
If you are getting your info on a message board, that's a sure sign you need to leave your wife's retirement stuff ALONE.
Posted by Vols&Shaft83
Throbbing Member
Member since Dec 2012
70096 posts
Posted on 6/17/13 at 11:11 am to
quote:

If you are getting your info on a message board, that's a sure sign you need to leave your wife's retirement stuff ALONE.


Normally I'd agree, but MT contributors are pretty solid.
Posted by Janky
Team Primo
Member since Jun 2011
35957 posts
Posted on 6/17/13 at 11:12 am to
quote:

If you are getting your info on a message board, that's a sure sign you need to leave your wife's retirement stuff ALONE


Great post. Thanks for the input.
Posted by tirebiter
7K R&G chile land aka SF
Member since Oct 2006
10995 posts
Posted on 6/17/13 at 12:37 pm to
quote:

If you are wanting a basic aggressive model it would be something like this in my opinion:

Lg= 48%
Smid= 28%
Int'l= 17%
Alts=5-7%

Now, this can be tweaked in many different ways but it is a pretty good starting point. I have never seen a model that calls for 50% in smid. Maybe some others can chime in.



International comprises ~ 57% of the global equity markets. One could say many domestic companies generate revenue in international markets and believe one could gain international benefits from that and reduce direct exposure to international below 57%, but starting with 20-30% exposure to international is a reasonable allocation.

Some advocate more of a barbell approach, ie reducing overall equity allocation to reduce overall portfolio volatility by investing all equity in small value/international small & value and completely forgoing mid and large cap due to historical outperformance of small cap stocks. They would invest in 30-35% equity and the rest in fixed income and possibly some alts. Many ways to construct a portfolio although some require more patience and dealing with cycles of underperformance to capture long term expected return. As the saying goes, the only constants are death and taxes.
Posted by CQQ
Member since Feb 2006
17048 posts
Posted on 6/17/13 at 12:43 pm to
quote:

If you are getting your info on a message board, that's a sure sign you need to leave your wife's retirement stuff ALONE.


I disagree but thanks for your advice
Posted by tirebiter
7K R&G chile land aka SF
Member since Oct 2006
10995 posts
Posted on 6/17/13 at 12:50 pm to
quote:

I disagree but thanks for your advice



He's not altogether wrong. Knowledge is $$$$$$$$$. Have to be knowledgeable to determine what is closer to truth than bullshite.
Posted by CQQ
Member since Feb 2006
17048 posts
Posted on 6/17/13 at 1:43 pm to
quote:

Knowledge is $$$$$$$$$


I don't know why I'm responding but I'll just say for someone who didn't know a thing about investing about 2 years ago, I've gotten more information from here than when I try to look it up on my own. People like Janky take the time to explain things so when I look it up, I have at least some understanding to build off of. Again, thanks for the advice
Posted by BennyAndTheInkJets
Middle of a layover
Member since Nov 2010
5858 posts
Posted on 6/17/13 at 2:26 pm to
So first things first in recommending what you should do with this.

- How old are you and your wife?
- How much risk are you comfortable with?
- How far are you away from your "target" retirement amount?
- Do you follow markets daily/weekly?
- When you look at markets, what do you usually look at?
- How much money do you have in relation to your retirement funds (don't want amounts, just percentages)?

So the fund you're talking about is the PIMCO Total Return Fund, adminsitrative class. The administrative class is the type of shares you will have, because the minimum amount to invest in the institutional class is $1M. The only difference is the administrative class has higher fees. This is different from target date funds as target dates are just a mix of different asset classes (equities and bonds) that derisks as you get closer to retirement. For example, say you're 30 years old and planning on retiring in 30 years so you invest in the 2045 target date fund. Right now this fund will be ~80% equities and ~20% bonds. As you get closer to retirement this will shift more towards bonds as you want to protect your capital the closer you are to retirement.

Turnover of 380% is just the amount that is traded over the course of the year, I honestly wouldn't worry too much about that in this regard because I know how they calculate this figure and it can be skewed very easily with how the fund invests. But just for your educational purposes, 380% turnover would indicate that 380% of the average portfolio market value was traded througout the year.

What this is:
The PIMCO Total Return Fund, a core fixed income fund that focuses primarily on US fixed income with allocations to some non-US developed countries and emerging markets. It can utilize these positions through cash bonds or derivatives, depending on the market environment. It is an intermediate duration focused fund, which in simple terms means it will usually be between 3-6 years in duration. This is your interest rate risk, the longer duration you are the more interest rate risk you have.

What bonds are:
Bonds are any sort of fixed income instrument: treasuries, loans, debt, mortgages, lines of credit, other sovereign bonds, etc.. The Total Return Fund usually focuses on treasuries/TIPS, mortgages, corporate bonds, some municipals, and different allocations to emerging markets, non-US developed bonds, and currencies.

Why or why not this is a good/bad option:
It really depends on your risk tolerance. The Total Return Fund has been the bond staple since inception with over 8% annualized returns. That is not an indication of returns going forward as the past 30 years have seen a secular bull market in bonds, real estate, equities, and basically every asset class. If you have a sleeve of your retirement that core fixed income fits into, there isn't another fund I would recommend more. It really just depends on your abilitiy and willingess to take risk as well as your goals.
This post was edited on 6/17/13 at 2:27 pm
Posted by tirebiter
7K R&G chile land aka SF
Member since Oct 2006
10995 posts
Posted on 6/17/13 at 2:36 pm to
What happened to my hoped for ER reduction on PTTRX holdings? Gots to pay for my dogs ultra premium food. :jump2:
Posted by BennyAndTheInkJets
Middle of a layover
Member since Nov 2010
5858 posts
Posted on 6/18/13 at 1:25 pm to
quote:

What happened to my hoped for ER reduction on PTTRX holdings? Gots to pay for my dogs ultra premium food.

You talking about a fee reduction? That's the funny thing about a fee reduction, everyone wants one during down years but good luck raising fees in good years.

In my experience, I've seen more fees gathered through performance fees over time rather than base management fees.
Posted by tirebiter
7K R&G chile land aka SF
Member since Oct 2006
10995 posts
Posted on 6/18/13 at 6:28 pm to
The Queens of bad assedness don't want to hear excuses about not reducing fees, only positive performance and moarrrrr UP dog food, tenderloin will work in a pinch.
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