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Posted on 1/3/18 at 4:48 pm to bstew3006
quote:
Its not for everyone, as stated before, you have to really fund them. Not once was it mentioned to do this as a stand alone retirement acct. It's to tax diversify your portfolio and supplement retirement.
Let's be honest, as LSUfan stated above this isn't marketed as a good product only to those who can afford to use it as such. It's pushed heavily across the board due to higher commissions. Most people have the financial ability to fund one retirement account and want some life insurance so their wives aren't stuck with the bills and half the income, and this is pushed as a single product to accomplish both.
That's great that you have made a decision that you believe will put you in the best position later in life.
Posted on 1/3/18 at 5:04 pm to TheBoo
quote:
higher commissions
This is overused and not accurate. The product I use has a much lower commission, why? Bc of the higher premium and when you compare it with Term Commissions if factors out to be the same payout.
Posted on 1/3/18 at 5:22 pm to TheBoo
Did you read my whole post or just singled out one part to fit your narrative which negates the whole point?
You are also forgetting if you die prematurely you will get a large death benefit. So you die before you can retire, it would be a large guaranteed benefit to your family which includes your premiums paid. If you make it to retirement age, your funded policy would be an additional stream of income to pull from that’s tax deferred and has earned a respectable rate of return.
You are also forgetting if you die prematurely you will get a large death benefit. So you die before you can retire, it would be a large guaranteed benefit to your family which includes your premiums paid. If you make it to retirement age, your funded policy would be an additional stream of income to pull from that’s tax deferred and has earned a respectable rate of return.
This post was edited on 1/3/18 at 5:23 pm
Posted on 1/3/18 at 5:58 pm to BestBanker
quote:
from time to time (every few years) someone asks a fair question to which I like to offer some of my 3 decades of experience. What truly amazes me is the abounding ignorance when so much information is truly available with the advent of the internet search engines.
Save me from my ignorance and educate me, all I want to see are some real historical returns of typical policies over the last 10, 20, and 30 years. All I ever see are future projections at various rates of return based on fairy dust. I want to know of the total number of policies written what percentage are still in effect after 10, 20, 30 years. Very simple information, not unlike the readily available data that can be found for any mutual fund, individual stock, or even real estate, but all I get from insurance reps is crickets. Why would someone expect me to invest my money into a product without seeing real data?
Posted on 1/4/18 at 9:59 am to AUtigerNOLA
quote:
Did you read my whole post or just singled out one part to fit your narrative which negates the whole point?
If my post negated your whole point then please re-explain your point.
quote:
it would be a large guaranteed benefit to your family which includes your premiums paid.
False. Whole life policies only pay out the death benefit upon death. You forfeit all that money you paid into it if you die without using it. It is "absorbed by the insurance company"
The truth is you never own the cash value - what's being marketed to you as your own money - while the policy is in force, the insurance company does. You have to borrow against it, and even if you do that and you die, the balance of the loan is taken out of your death benefit.
This post was edited on 1/4/18 at 10:07 am
Posted on 1/4/18 at 12:12 pm to EA6B
quote:
Save me from my ignorance and educate me
I would like to help if possible here, but minds can be very difficult to change in an internet post.
quote:
all I want to see are some real historical returns of typical policies over the last 10, 20, and 30 years.
...then inquire from the carrier you have interest. Not knowing what "historical returns" you seek because life insurance is not an investible security but rather an indemnity issue, one could assume that you refer to dividend history? Dividends in and of themselves are one piece of a mutual life policy, whereas the death benefit is the asset that allows dividends and cash to be accessible. The tax free rate of return associated with the death benefit is substantial and only determined at the time of death.
quote:
All I ever see are future projections at various rates of return based on fairy dust.
You're about to go into a cloud...
quote:
I want to know of the total number of policies written what percentage are still in effect after 10, 20, 30 years
What does this answer help you solve in your particular situation? Two things I can tell you is that the overwhelming majority of our clients keep their life insurance coverage for 30+ yrs, and that of ALL term life policies owned, 98%+ of all that coverage cancels or converts to permanent coverage before death occurs (Harvard study). Not to cause insult, but the same question should be asked as to how many people keep the same investment strategy with the same investment instrument for 10, 20, and 30 yrs. I understand why you ask what you did.
quote:
Very simple information, not unlike the readily available data that can be found for any mutual fund, individual stock, or even real estate
This is the cloud I referenced above. Stock value is easily determined based on purchase price. Similar calculations for real estate can be done as well but typically remove all expense, tax, interest payment, tax credit, etc. from the overall rate of return. Mutual funds, on the other hand, are an entirely different understanding. Average rates of return are advertised, not real rates of return, and that is something one has to accurately determine. Funds that underperform or are not viably marketable are either shifted or removed and prior evidence of returns are not kept. SEC not me. That's one reason you will sometimes see the 1, 3, 5 yr averages but nothing long term.
Please understand that type is different than spoken word. I have no cynicism or sarcasm in this response to your post. Many people think group-like instead of individually and that creates conflict.
Life insurance is a tax-free asset under US tax law, thus is must have some valuable properties that make it worthwhile to own. Otherwise, for the past hundreds of years, it's been an abysmal failure to those who have owned it. It is NOT the only instrument of finance one should use, but in coordination with the entire financial system, a guaranteed death benefit greatly assists in areas of asset protection, liquidity, premature death, eventual death, disability, long-term care, asset preservation, asset distribution, investment opportunity, and credit lending to name a number of valuable interests.
Lagniappe: The Roth IRA law created by Congress mimics the life insurance policy with after-tax deposit of premium, tax deferred/tax free growth, and tax free distribution.
The standard IRA/qualified plan laws created by Congress mimics the life insurance policy titled "annuity", with tax deferred growth, 10% early withdrawal penalty prior to 59.5 yrs of age, and taxable income at distribution.
If you or anyone is enflamed, my apologies in advance. Serious. No one holds a pistol to the head in an attempt to explain rational information and I really don't do a great job most of the time in explanation.
Posted on 1/4/18 at 1:08 pm to TheBoo
Wow 
Posted on 1/4/18 at 1:44 pm to bstew3006
quote:
He is speaking about supplementing your retirement this way. I'm 36 and put $1,000 per month / 12,000 a year into a policy or 10 years. I'm doing this bc I want to maximize tax free accumulation and supplement my other retirement accounts. You have to stop thinking about the Death benefit when doing this. The death benefit is just he vessel that's keeping me tax free.
You realize that if you put that $1,000 month into a retirement account and invested it you'd never need to 'supplement' your retirement?
If the average person took their whole life insurance premium they are diversifying themselves with in times of market down turns, then the'd have enough money to literally not worry about a downturn.
Instead, you are recommending they put less money into their retirement account in order to diversify themselves from an issue you are creating by diversifying.
Posted on 1/4/18 at 2:54 pm to baldona
quote:
You realize that if you put that $1,000 month into a retirement account and invested it you'd never need to 'supplement' your retirement?
You're right, I've never heard of anyone losing money in there retirement investments. Can you show me what investments I need to make that are 100% guaranteed and will be at all time highs when I retire? I'm maxing out my IRAs, great deferred comp plan, Hell I'm even in the Crypto game and using WL so that I can completey protect myself 25-30 years from now. Also, it will provide in the ball park of $500,000 at my death after I've squeezed plenty of money out of it. I know my investment will make me money, but I know for a fact my WL will not lose me a .01! It will also protect my assets, give me Long Term Care and source of funds in the down market like 09. How many people were retiring in 08/09 and lost 30%/50% had to go back to work or prolong their retirement??? I'm planning just for that protection. You don't like it, I don't care! You do you and I'm gonna do me! I actually work in this industry and have seen it first hand of people planning just like you, some did great, most didn't. I'm not saying don't do it your way, but this is my way and I like taking some risk off the table and protection of my assets. This post was edited on 1/4/18 at 3:53 pm
Posted on 1/5/18 at 7:52 am to AUtigerNOLA
quote:
Wow
Yea I know it's shocking.
Posted on 1/5/18 at 8:31 am to TheBoo
Its shocking about the false info you just provided. Its one thing not to agree or have a different opinion, that's totally fine. Its another thing, however, to provide things as facts when you aren't informed on the product or policy you are talking about.
Posted on 1/5/18 at 10:26 am to bstew3006
quote:
You're right, I've never heard of anyone losing money in there retirement investments.
You are taking $218,000 to diversify yourself from a potential market down turn in 20 years. With a 7% return, your money doubles every 10 years. So by the time you are 52 and stop putting money into it, if you invested it poorly in the stock market you'd have well over $300k. At 62 that much would be well over $600k and possibly closer to $1 mil.
But hell, let's say you took it and put it in a money market 1.5% savings account. By the time you hit retirement age you'll still have $250k in freaking cash. If you have a market downturn, spend some of that principle.
If someone else holding onto your money and investing it poorly makes you feel better, then I don't mind that and good for you for doing what it takes to sleep better at night.
You are allowing someone else to poorly invest your money to diversify from an issue you are creating yourself by diversifying.
Insurance agents love to make retirement a complicated risky matter, it's not at all actually. You simply need to fund it properly your whole life by putting at least 10% of your income into investments to retire some day.
Posted on 1/5/18 at 10:32 am to AUtigerNOLA
What info was false? Please correct anything I stated that was false and provide a credible source for the correct info.
Show me a whole life policy that pays out both the cash value and the death benefit without a special rider.
Show me a whole life policy where a cash value loan is forgiven upon death?
Show me a whole life policy that pays out both the cash value and the death benefit without a special rider.
Show me a whole life policy where a cash value loan is forgiven upon death?
This post was edited on 1/5/18 at 12:34 pm
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