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Earnings season ramps up: A massive week for the US stock market

Posted on 4/22/18 at 2:07 pm
Posted by LSUtoOmaha
Nashville
Member since Apr 2004
26571 posts
Posted on 4/22/18 at 2:07 pm


Likely plays:

HOG puts
Southwest calls
MSFT calls
This post was edited on 4/22/18 at 2:10 pm
Posted by HailToTheChiz
Back in Auburn
Member since Aug 2010
48866 posts
Posted on 4/22/18 at 2:08 pm to
?
Posted by stout
Smoking Crack with Hunter Biden
Member since Sep 2006
167019 posts
Posted on 4/22/18 at 2:25 pm to
Futures look like crap right now
Posted by LSUtoOmaha
Nashville
Member since Apr 2004
26571 posts
Posted on 4/22/18 at 3:08 pm to
Lots of FUD going around to be sure
Posted by Doc Fenton
New York, NY
Member since Feb 2007
52698 posts
Posted on 4/22/18 at 4:38 pm to
Yeah. I keep oscillating between being 0% allocated and a little bit negative allocated into the S&P 500. I tiptoed in late morning on Mon., 4/2/18, when the S&P 500 was around 2,597, but then I reversed out of that toehold when my position got clobbered by the "Kudlow Bounce" on Wed., 4/4/18... how undignified, right?

But my thesis doesn't have a lot to do with China trade issues, and interest rates and inflation signals keep ascending higher, so I tiptoed back into a tiny SPXU position last Thursday, 4/19/18, with the S&P 500 at about 2,686. We'll see how it goes.

When the sharp correction occurred back in late Jan. / early Feb., the 10yr UST yield temporarily broke past 2.8%, and the consensus view from Wall Street professionals was, "yeah, that's troubling, but this market can handle higher rates, and our analyses tell us that we won't really start seeing trouble until it breaks past 3.0%." Most also thought (and I don't know why really) that the 10yr yield would not rise beyond 3%, but rather would end the year a little lower.

But wage growth and consumer prices are picking up steam [EDIT: and the current 10yr yield is at 2.96% and rising], and the Fed will not hesitate to kill a rally if it sees inflation during a time of extraordinarily low unemployment rates. So the table is set for the market to be "surprised" by a steeper rate hike schedule.

Bottom line--if the market gets wind of the fact that these nominal increases in corporate revenue numbers are being driven by consumer inflation that the Fed is sure to restrain (rather than real GDP growth, which is still poor), then market sentiment might soon shift very quickly.
This post was edited on 4/22/18 at 4:41 pm
Posted by LSUtoOmaha
Nashville
Member since Apr 2004
26571 posts
Posted on 4/22/18 at 6:23 pm to
You may also want to consider TLT puts if the "yield surprise" is part of your thesis. Rates go up, underlying bond value (Lehman 20 year) will likely go down.
Posted by Doc Fenton
New York, NY
Member since Feb 2007
52698 posts
Posted on 4/22/18 at 6:58 pm to
I've thought about it, but I don't want to be too exposed to the long-dated end of the yield curve. I expect the near-dated end of the yield curve to go up more steeply than the market is currently predicting, but if real GDP projections decline, then I could easily picture a situation where we also get an inverting yield curve bringing down the yields on long-dated Treasuries as investors move out of equities.

Of course, I suppose I could also make a short play on a shorter-maturity bond ETF like SHV, but I think I might risk losing a little focus if I did that. Best to keep it simple when possible.
Posted by LSUtoOmaha
Nashville
Member since Apr 2004
26571 posts
Posted on 4/22/18 at 8:17 pm to
BND may be a good compromise with an average of 5 year duration. SHV doesn’t move
This post was edited on 4/22/18 at 8:18 pm
Posted by LSURussian
Member since Feb 2005
126827 posts
Posted on 4/22/18 at 10:45 pm to
Futures have turned positive. Implied open about +70 on the DJ.
This post was edited on 4/22/18 at 11:07 pm
Posted by LSUcam7
FL
Member since Sep 2016
7892 posts
Posted on 4/23/18 at 6:24 am to
Earnings > 10YR Rate
Posted by Doc Fenton
New York, NY
Member since Feb 2007
52698 posts
Posted on 4/23/18 at 6:29 am to
The 10yr UST yield is climbing to near 2.99% in the pre-market hours (with the 10-2yr spread widening), but European stocks and U.S. futures remain almost flat, with no real response. It should be an interesting week.
Posted by Shepherd88
Member since Dec 2013
4573 posts
Posted on 4/23/18 at 6:45 am to
Why do you think a 3% 10yr will kill the market? Sure rates are rising and giving more attractive conservative options but the Fed is by no means tight. Rates are still below historical averages.

The fed funds needs rate needs to eclipse GDP growth IMO for us to see trouble.
Posted by Doc Fenton
New York, NY
Member since Feb 2007
52698 posts
Posted on 4/23/18 at 7:12 am to
There's nothing magic about the 3.0% threshold, but I remember that it was a common benchmark for discussions a couple of months ago. I think others may have used 3.1% in their analyses.

The larger point is that the 'TINA' argument for investing in equities no longer holds, and that's big news. So a 3.0% level may be somewhat arbitrary, but a spike in interest rates and inflation is real news, and a steeper schedule for Fed rate hikes could cause a lot of quant funds to start rebalancing from equities to bonds based on their formulas that include relative yields.

The caveat behind all this, of course, is that if the interest rate spike and yield curve widening is being caused by genuine acceleration of real GDP growth, then that would give the U.S. equities bulls even more room to run. Even in that case, however, I would still claim that long-term valuation metrics continue to signal a profoundly overvalued market.
Posted by LSUcam7
FL
Member since Sep 2016
7892 posts
Posted on 4/23/18 at 7:17 am to
Bonds are the real overvalued asset:

You pay $33 for $1 of 10YR bond interest.
Or
You pay $20 for $1 of S&P earnings.

On almost every other valuation measure we are overvalued, but often is that case in late stage bull markets.
Posted by Omada
Member since Jun 2015
692 posts
Posted on 4/23/18 at 11:49 am to
quote:

Bonds are the real overvalued asset:

You pay $33 for $1 of 10YR bond interest.
Or
You pay $20 for $1 of S&P earnings.

This doesn't take risk into account. The certainty of bonds should not be underestimated even if bonds currently aren't applicable to one's financial goals.
Posted by LSUtoOmaha
Nashville
Member since Apr 2004
26571 posts
Posted on 4/23/18 at 12:21 pm to
quote:

You pay $33 for $1 of 10YR bond interest.
Or
You pay $20 for $1 of S&P earnings.



To Omada's point, you pay to be first in line...
Posted by b-rab2
N. Louisiana
Member since Dec 2005
12574 posts
Posted on 4/23/18 at 2:36 pm to
ok, for tonight.. I'm in short puts: GOOGL 1000/965 expiring friday.
Posted by LSUcam7
FL
Member since Sep 2016
7892 posts
Posted on 4/23/18 at 2:49 pm to
quote:

To Omada's point, you pay to be first in line...


I get that in full. The relative valuation argument is less dramatic now that rates have come up, but not too long ago this was a much bigger gap. Bonds here are not as overvalued as they were.

With that said I’m far more comfortable owning companies with sustained revenue and EPS growth who are paying a respectable dividend.

I’ll always have some treasury exposure but I’m not selling my 2% dividend payers for 3% corporate bonds while those same companies are beating EPS estimates left and right.

I don’t think of risk defined as volatility, even though that is how it’s traditionally described. I would consider the relative risk in bonds greater than the volatility risk in stocks considering the macro backdrop.

Volatility in stocks will always be greater, obviously, but bonds, year to date, have been a surefire way to destroy principal if not managed appropriately.
Posted by wutangfinancial
Treasure Valley
Member since Sep 2015
11060 posts
Posted on 4/23/18 at 6:21 pm to
Do you not think you're going to get hammered? What's your P/L look like on the short? GOOG had a big beat I thought?
Posted by wutangfinancial
Treasure Valley
Member since Sep 2015
11060 posts
Posted on 4/23/18 at 6:21 pm to
Nevermind your short puts lol
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