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Basic finance questions for self employed

Posted on 11/4/19 at 6:17 am
Posted by TheOcean
#honeyfriedchicken
Member since Aug 2004
42438 posts
Posted on 11/4/19 at 6:17 am
Looking for some advice on how to plan money wise. Not intended to be a brag post, and I'm self employed, so next year I could make nothing.

I'm 30, girlfriend, no kids. First two years in business. Last year I grossed 130k and this year I will gross ~$250k. Here's my rough monthly expenses:

$400 - student loans
$300 - renting a house + utilities (will be basically free when gf moves in)
$1,500 - misc. business expenses
$350 - car note
$250 - food/eating out
$50 - health insurance/dental

And I'm sure a few hundred per month on other stuff.

Have around $60k in student loans. Not worried about car loan since the mileage is a huge write off for me.

~$200k saved. Haven't started any retirement accounts yet. I know I can start one through my business, match, and get a corresponding deduction.

Business partners and I are currently building a new home to rent. We expect the house to cash flow about 10% per year. I'd like to purchase one to two new rentals per year.

Any ideas on where to start investing wise? Or how much I should invest per year in retirement accounts? I really don't want to tie up my money as I want to invest heavily in real estate. Ultimate goal is $1mm net worth by 35, although I think that will be a stretch
Posted by plaric
Pike Road, Alabama
Member since Jun 2011
2200 posts
Posted on 11/4/19 at 7:10 am to
So, I would do exactly what you mention. Grow real estate if you can find deals. Depending on the business though, it may be beneficial for you and your partners to invest so you can grow and scale that. Don’t know enough about it to know if that is viable. If it is something you can scale and turn into a “business” (Others do the work for you) instead of a “job” (job relies solely on you and partners).
Posted by TheOcean
#honeyfriedchicken
Member since Aug 2004
42438 posts
Posted on 11/4/19 at 7:14 am to
Sorry, didn't mean to be confusing. My primary business is unrelated to real estate and I don't have any partners with my current business. The side real estate business we're hoping to grow pretty significantly in the next few years.

The issue is that if you're in a high tax bracket, it's hard to keep monies liquid without getting bent over paying taxes.
Posted by lynxcat
Member since Jan 2008
24118 posts
Posted on 11/4/19 at 7:21 am to
Sounds like your business is going well...can you further invest in it to accelerate the growth rather than doing the RE on the side?
Posted by SlowFlowPro
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
420863 posts
Posted on 11/4/19 at 7:39 am to
quote:

self employed

quote:

$50 - health insurance/dental


....how?
Posted by SlowFlowPro
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
420863 posts
Posted on 11/4/19 at 7:41 am to
quote:

Sounds like your business is going well...can you further invest in it to accelerate the growth rather than doing the RE on the side?

i had this great debate in 2016 before i stalled my self progress and went backwards a bit. hopefully i end this year strong and start 2020 strong to get back into this headspace. i want to diversify my personal business exposure while simplifying my primary business (so theoretically it can "run itself" with a realistic, conservative annual net)
Posted by PlanoPrivateer
Frisco, TX
Member since Jan 2004
2786 posts
Posted on 11/4/19 at 9:33 am to
The thing that jumped out for me was renting a house for $300 a month. Where and what kind of house can you rent for that?
Posted by hungryone
river parishes
Member since Sep 2010
11987 posts
Posted on 11/4/19 at 10:08 am to
I'm scratching my head as to why you'd save up $200K and not pay off the $60K in student loans.

Those expenses are crazy, crazy low. How are you renting an entire house and paying utilities for $300, and how is self-employed health/dental costing you $50/mo?
Posted by Mr Perfect
Member since Mar 2010
17836 posts
Posted on 11/4/19 at 10:24 am to
never understand how you guys find these rates on health insurance. does not make any sense
Posted by TheOcean
#honeyfriedchicken
Member since Aug 2004
42438 posts
Posted on 11/4/19 at 11:32 am to
Good ole tricare

I could get into a car wreck, rack up a million in hospital bills, and the max I'd pay is $150
This post was edited on 11/4/19 at 11:33 am
Posted by TheOcean
#honeyfriedchicken
Member since Aug 2004
42438 posts
Posted on 11/4/19 at 12:04 pm to
I've been paying off big chunks of my student loans here and there. The combined rate is low 4%, so that's pretty damn low.
Posted by TheOcean
#honeyfriedchicken
Member since Aug 2004
42438 posts
Posted on 11/4/19 at 12:08 pm to
Lynx -- the issue is scale. In a service industry (law firm) I only have my time to sell. If I grow any larger then I have to hire someone full time (right now I have a 1099 part time legal assistant). That creates a whole new set of issues (and expense).

I'd rather keep my business expense low while continuing to invest in my website/content creation/SEO/adwords. That way if I have a few bad months then it won't be an issue. I also have other stuff I need to clean up in terms of work flow before I hire someone full time.

SFP can probably relate to a lot of that.
Posted by Ace Midnight
Between sanity and madness
Member since Dec 2006
89453 posts
Posted on 11/4/19 at 12:15 pm to
quote:

I'm 30, girlfriend, no kids.


Fook mi - I recall when you were trying to get into Grad/Law school.

Where does the time go?


quote:

Not intended to be a brag post


....okay....

quote:

Last year I grossed 130k and this year I will gross ~$250k.


The frick you don't...

quote:

And I'm sure a few hundred per month on other stuff.


Stop what you're doing and get a handle on that. Even if you can't stop it - you MUST (not may, not "good to know" MUST) figure out how much is going, to whom and why. ASAP. That is your future bleeding out of your proverbial a-hole.

quote:

~$200k saved.


Like cash? Is that your self-employment capitalization reserve? What's the yield on that - you have it in money market or CDs?

quote:

Haven't started any retirement accounts yet.


Yeah, that needs to be priority #1 - I would just set a retirement window of 35 years just to give you a target date.

quote:

Any ideas on where to start investing wise?


If you want to directly manage it, open a Fidelity account and go with Vanguard - use Boglehead principles, dollar cost averaging and you should be fine with a 30 year investment window. See if they have an option for self-employed so you can do everything through there. If you have to go with a SIMPLE or whatever through your business, just do the minimum to get the deduction and do the rest in your own name.

quote:

Ultimate goal is $1mm net worth by 35


Yeah - that's just 5 years. Too much pressure because the priority is going to be growing/maintaining your business. I would set it at $750k (based on performance to date) or even $500k. You can adjust these goals every year or every other year as you meet/miss/exceed benchmarks.

quote:

I'd like to purchase one to two new rentals per year.


This is what I'm talking about, using leverage, you're contantly going to be flirting with $0 equity - and then trying to get cash flow up, then new investment - "growth" will feel like you're not growing at all from month-to-month, and then, one day - POOF - you'll be rich AF.

quote:

Have around $60k in student loans.


Obviously, they have to go. Probably 6.2%, but depending - may be cheaper to just service it as scheduled than try to put money in and get it from somewhere else.

quote:

Not worried about car loan since the mileage is a huge write off for me.


If you can, do all of that through your business - or as much as you can. "The whole thing" is a better write off than mileage.

Posted by TheOcean
#honeyfriedchicken
Member since Aug 2004
42438 posts
Posted on 11/4/19 at 1:46 pm to


The issue with tracking expenses is that it's a pain in the arse. I have quickbooks, I should probably take advantage of it and actually use it.

$200k -- roughly $80k is in a business account and the other is just in low yield accounts. No clue how much to keep in a rainy day fund, how much to invest, and how much to keep to invest in RE.

Is that Fidelity/Vanguard account a qualified account? I'm going to have to figure out how much I should be tucking away in retirement accounts for the tax savings.

quote:

This is what I'm talking about, using leverage, you're contantly going to be flirting with $0 equity - and then trying to get cash flow up, then new investment - "growth" will feel like you're not growing at all from month-to-month, and then, one day - POOF - you'll be rich AF.


Can you explain this? You lost me

Would you just pay off all of the student loans? The highest I have are in the 5% range. Lowest are 4%. I hate getting rid of liquid capital.

I ran the #s on the write-off, I drive so much that mileage is way better. If you go cost depreciation you can never switch back to mileage (so you're fricked if you own the car for 4-5+ years)

Appreciate the long, thoughtful post.

Also, what are your thoughts on the military TSP matching for reserves?



This post was edited on 11/4/19 at 1:48 pm
Posted by ynlvr
Rocket City
Member since Feb 2009
4583 posts
Posted on 11/4/19 at 2:07 pm to
quote:

Haven't started any retirement accounts yet.

Your side Real Estate hustle sounds like a good plan. As far as retirement accounts a SEP IRA is a good place to start - Max out with up to 25% of your salary up to $56,000
Posted by Ace Midnight
Between sanity and madness
Member since Dec 2006
89453 posts
Posted on 11/4/19 at 2:16 pm to
quote:

Can you explain this? You lost me


You're talking about investing in real estate - you're not going to write checks for that, right? You're going to leverage and that means every asset will have a loan balance associated with it. For a few years, it won't look like much, but you're funding that debt service with the gross income. And then your net worth will start to creep way up.

And I hate to tell you legal stuff, but you're going to want to have a LLP (or maybe a LLC) set up for each one of those rental properties, in case you didn't already know that.

quote:

I ran the #s on the write-off, I drive so much that mileage is way better. If you go cost depreciation you can never switch back to mileage (so you're fricked if you own the car for 4-5+ years)


I'm not talking about the "write off" - I'm talking about doing the A/B analysis between mileage and having the corporate entity owning/operating the car (lease/buy, maintenance, gas, depreciation, etc.). They've tweaked some things about it and you may have to do more accounting to cover your personal use, but if you're driving that much, a better deal is to have the entire car a deduction, if you can justify corroborate it at the audit.

quote:

Also, what are your thoughts on the military TSP matching for reserves?


Well, I'm all past that now (retired in January). Plus, I was grandfathered in the old system and there was no incentive for me to move to blended.

If you're in the blended retirement system, definitely take advantage of the match. I get the match on the civilian side.
This post was edited on 11/4/19 at 2:18 pm
Posted by baldona
Florida
Member since Feb 2016
20370 posts
Posted on 11/4/19 at 5:34 pm to
Scratch the side hustle man, why? Seriously? If you are grossing $250k on your primary at 30 you are imo dumb to work on a side hustle. Put your effort and time into your primary job and grow that.

I'd work on hiring people.

Are you an Scorp? Have you paid personal income taxes on the money in your business bank account? If so you should get that money into a separate account and not operating fund.

I'd open SEP retirement account or solo 401k or whatever. SEP is like 3 pages of paperwork and boom you are done.

Then SCALE.

IMO you are working way too hard on this millenial idea of having multiple side hustles that you manage and no actual job. I don't know what your actual take home is, but I'd work on your primary and primary only for another couple years.

ETA: Rental properties are great if you are sitting on your arse as like a government worker with routine time off and 4 day weekends and crap. But I have my own rental properties, and if it wasn't for email reminders I'd forget to check to see if rent was paid and other things were done. Its still takes your time, and it still needs to be worked on or you can lose money real quick. Scale is great don't get me wrong, but you already have a business doing well. I'm simply saying don't spend a ton of time on a project that might work out when you have a project that IS working out.
This post was edited on 11/4/19 at 5:41 pm
Posted by baldona
Florida
Member since Feb 2016
20370 posts
Posted on 11/4/19 at 5:37 pm to
As a business owner I'll tell you there's no such thing as a write off. This is an amateur hour term.

There's business expenses pre tax, then there's personal expenses.

Just because you get to do something under your business doesn't mean it doesn't cost you anything. Because it does, don't forget that.
Posted by wasteland
City of peace
Member since Apr 2011
5600 posts
Posted on 11/4/19 at 6:41 pm to
There's been a lot of great advice and questions brought up here already. I have a feeling your expenses are quite a bit different than what you posted. I'm not saying you're being dishonest. In my experience (Financial Advisor) when people give me some of the answers you provided here, expenses are typically 25 to 30% off. I'd challenge you to get a firm grasp on both personal and business expenses.

You are not going to answer questions about liquidity needs without a strong handle on your cash flow.

What's your goal on rentals and how do you plan on hitting those goals? As Ace pointed out, accumulation of RE for long term wealth is mostly done through leverage especially with current rates.

Here's something that hasn't been mentioned yet and hinges on your long term RE goals...

Are you aware you put those rentals inside a Roth or IRA? You would have to backdoor a ROTH first and it will take time but the tax benefits are huge. I picked up a client in NOLA recently with 17 rentals in a self directed Roth account! One of the best DIYer investments I've come across lately.

Are you still in reserves? That why you asked about TSP?

I think step one is budgeting for the main purpose of figuring out liquidity needs. It makes no sense to pay on a 5% student loan if you have 200k sitting idle earnkng next to 0%
Posted by dirtsandwich
AL
Member since May 2016
5110 posts
Posted on 11/4/19 at 8:29 pm to
You need to consult a professional and sooner than later (basically now). Probably a CFP and/or an accountant. If I understand what you’ve said, you are wasting thousands of dollars by not maxing out your qualified accounts.
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