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Anyone here familiar with the FIRE movement toward early retirement?
Posted on 9/2/18 at 3:10 am
Posted on 9/2/18 at 3:10 am
I read this article here about Gen X'ers and Millennials planning to retire in their 30's and 40's. Of course this requires a bit of luck and privilege (low school debt, 6 figure job right out of school...). I'm still missing how they plan for healthcare, but my wife and I were talking about it as a possibility for us in our late 40's.
Is this just an aspirational anecdotal article? We may try a few months of real frugality to see how it works for us.
Any thoughts from the wise Money board?
Is this just an aspirational anecdotal article? We may try a few months of real frugality to see how it works for us.
Any thoughts from the wise Money board?
Posted on 9/2/18 at 6:26 am to Spirit of Dunson
I think it’s a good goal to have but $1m in the bank in your 40s isn’t near enough. It’s assuming everything is going to go your way (no big medical issues) and you are definitely not going to be helping your kids out at all (weddings, maybe grandkids, paying for some vacations, etc). You’d have to be super disciplined as well which most people aren’t. Plus you have no idea what the tax laws or social security benefits are going to be and retiring that early with $1m in your prime earning years wouldn’t be the smartest move. I’d say come up with a date that you want to retire and add 5 years to it. Also, it’s different if you retire from a demanding job and then maybe go work at a non profit or something less demanding but it’s still a job.
Posted on 9/2/18 at 7:02 am to Serraneaux
Nonprofit work can be every bit as demanding, maybe even more so. Contrary to popular belief, nonprofits must make a profit to survive just like a for-profit. They just can't raise money by selling a share of future profits in the form of stock.
There's absolutely nothing wrong with getting as much saved up as quickly as possible, but just quitting work entirely at age 40 seems not very smart. Maybe do something else you like that still pays something but without having to worry so much about income is a better way of thinking about it.
There's absolutely nothing wrong with getting as much saved up as quickly as possible, but just quitting work entirely at age 40 seems not very smart. Maybe do something else you like that still pays something but without having to worry so much about income is a better way of thinking about it.
Posted on 9/2/18 at 8:56 am to Spirit of Dunson
My plan is to quasi retire once the kids exit college. I should be about 55.
Posted on 9/2/18 at 8:57 am to Spirit of Dunson
quote:
how they plan for healthcare
Interestingly enough, Obamacare subsidies are based on income, not wealth. So what some of these folks were doing was saving a million or so but only drawing 40k a year and therefore qualifying for very low or free premium payments due to family size.
Making a long term plan based on legislation that can change drastically over 40 years is a pretty big risk to take.
I read those blogs a bit because I do think we could learn something about minimizing expenses.
I'd also mention this idea has taken off during a really great time to do it during a ten year bull run so it will be interesting to follow along with any pullback.
This post was edited on 9/2/18 at 9:01 am
Posted on 9/2/18 at 9:06 am to Spirit of Dunson
Interesting timing of your post. Over the last couple of days I have been thinking pretty hard about a mid- to late-40s retirement.
But as you mentioned the health care and health insurance is the big piece that I would need to research and line out. Any co-ops or professional associations that help with this? Perhaps if I stayed engaged as a part-time consultant?
But as you mentioned the health care and health insurance is the big piece that I would need to research and line out. Any co-ops or professional associations that help with this? Perhaps if I stayed engaged as a part-time consultant?
Posted on 9/2/18 at 9:09 am to Spirit of Dunson
quote:
Is this just an aspirational anecdotal article?
I'm a pretty lazy guy and even I don't get this drive to retire so young. I get if you have an opportunity to be your own boss and get out of the "wage slavery" paradigm, but just to sit on arse for 30, 40 years maybe?
If you retire that early, you won't have the money you thought you would have to travel and enjoy your free time - you've more or less opted in to senior citizen, fixed-income living while you're still of child-bearing age.
Posted on 9/2/18 at 9:33 am to Ace Midnight
Exactly. It’s the hard work saving today that can be game changing when you get close to retirement age. That’s why I said quasi retire. I’ll be doing something, but just not sure what.
Posted on 9/2/18 at 10:02 am to Spirit of Dunson
I've considered retiring early but am just not willing to give up a rewarding career. I've still got kids in school, so I figured I would retire once they're out of the nest which would put me around 57 or 58. However, working just 4 more years past that to 62 makes such a huge difference in wealth that I'd almost be a fool not to work until 62. I'm talking about securing my kids' retirements as well as my own (or I could just be lavish in my spending). So, unless I have a medical issue that keeps me from it I figure working until 62 to secure my family's future is worth it.
So, not retiring early if I can help it.
So, not retiring early if I can help it.
Posted on 9/2/18 at 10:07 am to eng08
I think a big part of this whole thing is recognizing when you have enough.
For example, my wife and I make a lot more than either of our parents ever did throughout their careers. I lived a very lower middle class upbringing. I can keep working until 65 and be old with a shite ton of cash, or I can say, you know having the retirement of the 90th percentile is just as good as the 99th, why don't I stop a few years earlier?
I don't think it has to be some drastic change from being totally self sufficient to depending on social security sort of thing. You can work this all over the income scale.
And as mentioned in the articles, the folks most publicized doing this are for the most part doing very well. They aren't making 65k a year.
For example, my wife and I make a lot more than either of our parents ever did throughout their careers. I lived a very lower middle class upbringing. I can keep working until 65 and be old with a shite ton of cash, or I can say, you know having the retirement of the 90th percentile is just as good as the 99th, why don't I stop a few years earlier?
I don't think it has to be some drastic change from being totally self sufficient to depending on social security sort of thing. You can work this all over the income scale.
And as mentioned in the articles, the folks most publicized doing this are for the most part doing very well. They aren't making 65k a year.
This post was edited on 9/2/18 at 10:10 am
Posted on 9/2/18 at 10:17 am to Teddy Ruxpin
The part I struggle with FIRE is what “my number” needs to be. I also recognize it can be very hard to walk away from your prime earning years even when you have whatever is deemed “enough”.
My general target is $5M in investable assets but this is a number I recently came up with without much analysis. Assume a 5% return with annually and that gives plenty cash flow to live very comfortably.
My general target is $5M in investable assets but this is a number I recently came up with without much analysis. Assume a 5% return with annually and that gives plenty cash flow to live very comfortably.
Posted on 9/2/18 at 10:24 am to Spirit of Dunson
Check out Reddit r/fire. You can do FI without RE.
Posted on 9/2/18 at 10:25 am to lynxcat
Ya, if you start off with maxing everything you can I don't know if you can really go wrong. At some point you have to think if you're doing all that and can't retire, then who can?
This post was edited on 9/2/18 at 10:26 am
Posted on 9/2/18 at 10:33 am to B4YOU
quote:
You can do FI without RE.
This is what I hope to do. I’m interested in becoming a college professor later in life.
Posted on 9/2/18 at 10:34 am to Spirit of Dunson
There's a lot of good points in this thread, so thanks!
I will be 58 when my youngest theoretically finishes college. I really don't want to wait that long, so I'd like to target 50 for retirement.
I know I'll never really "retire". I'm sure I'll do volunteer work, or teach, be on various boards, or similar. I'm just looking to be more in control of my time. But the idea of living off of interest/dividend income scares me with the risk of a market pull back. Add to that the healthcare risks, and I don't know if I could ever pull the trigger. We live in Europe now, and healthcare is great and affordable, so we are considering staying... which changes the entire equation. I think we'd plan to get more certainty about our kids' future before any major decisions, though.
I will be 58 when my youngest theoretically finishes college. I really don't want to wait that long, so I'd like to target 50 for retirement.
I know I'll never really "retire". I'm sure I'll do volunteer work, or teach, be on various boards, or similar. I'm just looking to be more in control of my time. But the idea of living off of interest/dividend income scares me with the risk of a market pull back. Add to that the healthcare risks, and I don't know if I could ever pull the trigger. We live in Europe now, and healthcare is great and affordable, so we are considering staying... which changes the entire equation. I think we'd plan to get more certainty about our kids' future before any major decisions, though.
Posted on 9/2/18 at 10:49 am to Spirit of Dunson
Some aspects of the FIRE movement are good, but I have found the majority of it is garbage.
Posted on 9/2/18 at 10:55 am to Spirit of Dunson
It's one thing to start out in a great situation and can put away, say $5k/month for 20 years and retire at 42. But who wants to retire just as soon as they have enough to get by and pinch pennies for the next 50 years?
To each their own, but I would rather work until 65 than retire at 40 and try to live off $40k household.
To each their own, but I would rather work until 65 than retire at 40 and try to live off $40k household.
Posted on 9/2/18 at 12:06 pm to Spirit of Dunson
quote:
. I'm still missing how they plan for healthcare
quote:
“barista FIRE” (working part-time at Starbucks after retiring, for the company’s health insurance
Posted on 9/2/18 at 2:24 pm to Spirit of Dunson
I'm considering ER next year at 42. I posted about it recently and got mixed feedback. I was surprised how many people can't fathom a meaningful life without paid full-time work.
Am I ER ready?
Am I ER ready?
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