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re: Amazon chooses NYC and Northern VA for HQ2 and HQ3
Posted on 11/15/18 at 7:46 pm to castorinho
Posted on 11/15/18 at 7:46 pm to castorinho
quote:
but the median is an avg
No it is not.
Average is the sum of a set of numbers divided by the sample size. Median is the value at which half of the numbers are lower and half are higher.
Take, for example, the starting salary of Geography graduates from UNC. Let's say there were ten in a given year: five grads found jobs paying $40k, four that pay $50k, and one had a job paying $10 million (Michael Jordan got his degree in Geography from UNC).
The average is ((5x40k) + (4x50k) + 10m) / 10 = $1,040,000 But the median is $45k, half earn less and half earn more.
Both median and average (or mean) try to measure a single aggregate value that represents the whole but average can be skewed by outliers whereas median cannot. For a normal "Gaussian" distribution they'll usually be pretty close though. And sometimes those outliers are important too.
1
Posted on 11/15/18 at 8:42 pm to foshizzle
quote:Well the most common representation of average is arithmetic mean; however, average is a broader term that used to represent some group, and as a statistical representation, it usually refers to a measure of central tendency (which includes median), with the arithmetic mean being he most common.
No it is not.
Average is the sum of a set of numbers divided by the sample size. Median is the value at which half of the numbers are lower and half are higher.
But even then, the arithmetic mean isn’t even the only “mean” used to represent average, such as using the geometric mean when referring to the average growth of some stock or index.
Posted on 11/15/18 at 10:33 pm to baldona
quote:
But amazon isn’t a tech company
Does no one understand how amazon makes money? I see this all the time.
quote:
At Amazon, a Sr. Financial Analyst in operations requires 2 to 3 years of experience.
This also isn’t true - MBAs come out as senior financial analysts (at amazon specifically). I am not saying there’s no one 2 years out of undergrad that’s a senior financial analyst making 150 but that would be a total outlier. Most are MBAs.
This post was edited on 11/15/18 at 10:39 pm
Posted on 11/15/18 at 10:51 pm to reb13
Some MBAs have the senior analyst title but a lot have Senior Program Manager or something similar.
$150K is going to be on the high-end for a recent MBA and I'd be very surprised to see someone 2-3 years out of undergraduate making that kind of cash.
To put in perspective, the very top talent that goes to IB or MBB out of undergrad is making about $100K and are getting closer to the $125K range a couple years out.
Post-MBA at MBB is about $140K base with another 25-40K in bonus at the consultant level. These are some of the most lucrative roles that MBA graduates are seeking.
I'm not saying that Amazon doesn't hire and compete for talent with these firms but every employee isn't earning at kind of coin.
$150K is going to be on the high-end for a recent MBA and I'd be very surprised to see someone 2-3 years out of undergraduate making that kind of cash.
To put in perspective, the very top talent that goes to IB or MBB out of undergrad is making about $100K and are getting closer to the $125K range a couple years out.
Post-MBA at MBB is about $140K base with another 25-40K in bonus at the consultant level. These are some of the most lucrative roles that MBA graduates are seeking.
I'm not saying that Amazon doesn't hire and compete for talent with these firms but every employee isn't earning at kind of coin.
Posted on 11/15/18 at 11:12 pm to lynxcat
When I say personal experience, I mean that I am at Amazon now and have gone through the jobs that I mentioned. My team is on the block to go to Nashville potentially, I know all of the teams slated to go. I can say with confidence they are paid very well.
Eta: to put in perspective, my entire team is under 27 and all make in the 225k range. I'm in my 30s and backfilled a 26 year old. I don't think you are familiar with the going rates at tech companies, theyre absurd
Eta: to put in perspective, my entire team is under 27 and all make in the 225k range. I'm in my 30s and backfilled a 26 year old. I don't think you are familiar with the going rates at tech companies, theyre absurd
This post was edited on 11/15/18 at 11:22 pm
Posted on 11/16/18 at 8:02 am to bostitch
Again how big is your team? Again I never said that the good jobs weren’t going to pay great.
I’m saying I don’t see a Nashville location having 80% of its jobs being great. You are telling me Amazon employs almost no one in basic admin, Hr, data entry, call center, accounting, etc.? If they are opening a Nashville location I was expecting it to House many of those type of jobs for the southwest and Midwest?
I know quite a few Vandy MBAs, it’s been a couple years so this may have changed recently but the one knock on Vandy was there wasn’t a ton of local jobs available to them. Certainly not in the $150k range immediately out of school.
I’m saying I don’t see a Nashville location having 80% of its jobs being great. You are telling me Amazon employs almost no one in basic admin, Hr, data entry, call center, accounting, etc.? If they are opening a Nashville location I was expecting it to House many of those type of jobs for the southwest and Midwest?
I know quite a few Vandy MBAs, it’s been a couple years so this may have changed recently but the one knock on Vandy was there wasn’t a ton of local jobs available to them. Certainly not in the $150k range immediately out of school.
Posted on 11/16/18 at 9:11 am to bostitch
If Amazon is paying those kind of wages in Nashville, then it is simply overpaying. Seattle has become a very competitive labor market with rising COL so I can see why it would be required to pay a premium. However, it would be irresponsible HR policy to pay the same wages in Nashville.
I also think it’s silly to think that the majority of Amazon employees (given senior analyst is a junior role, this is what is implied) are making north of $200K in base and variable pay each year.
If that is somehow the case, then the differential between junior and senior employee compensation must almost wholly come through RSUs. Amazon isn’t going to be paying its middle management $400-500K base (Sr Manager, Director).
I know the tech sector pays absurd salaries for some positions but these are generally centered on computer engineers. It’s illogical for Amazon to pay $200K+ for positions that make $80K almost everywhere else.
I also think it’s silly to think that the majority of Amazon employees (given senior analyst is a junior role, this is what is implied) are making north of $200K in base and variable pay each year.
If that is somehow the case, then the differential between junior and senior employee compensation must almost wholly come through RSUs. Amazon isn’t going to be paying its middle management $400-500K base (Sr Manager, Director).
I know the tech sector pays absurd salaries for some positions but these are generally centered on computer engineers. It’s illogical for Amazon to pay $200K+ for positions that make $80K almost everywhere else.
Posted on 11/16/18 at 9:18 am to lynxcat
I'm not saying its logical, but its what happens. A "financial analyst" in operations, which is not in a tech pay band makes about 100k betweem stock and base. Sr Analysts around 150k. FMs closer to 195k and so on.
Now tech pay bands are crazier, and even these ops roles in Nashville will have many of these positions. But the Sr. Manager in my career path makes well over $300k. They have to compete with the Googles and Facebooks of the world, and in comparison these #s are cheap against what those two pay.
The thing about Amazon is the market doesnt matter, they pay similarly nation wide. They only adjust comp between countries.
Now the downside is that all base salaries are capped at a fairly modest #. Stock after a certian level becomes primary compensation, so your paychecks aren't these crazy amounts. This eases the pain on Amazon to the point they can offer crazy compensations.
Now tech pay bands are crazier, and even these ops roles in Nashville will have many of these positions. But the Sr. Manager in my career path makes well over $300k. They have to compete with the Googles and Facebooks of the world, and in comparison these #s are cheap against what those two pay.
The thing about Amazon is the market doesnt matter, they pay similarly nation wide. They only adjust comp between countries.
Now the downside is that all base salaries are capped at a fairly modest #. Stock after a certian level becomes primary compensation, so your paychecks aren't these crazy amounts. This eases the pain on Amazon to the point they can offer crazy compensations.
Posted on 11/16/18 at 9:28 am to baldona
My team is is very small, 5 or 6. And I am an individual contributor.
Support functions like HR, Data Entry, Accounting are either centralized or broken down into the warehouse level. The roles in Nashville are more Supply Chain management.
Support functions like HR, Data Entry, Accounting are either centralized or broken down into the warehouse level. The roles in Nashville are more Supply Chain management.
Posted on 11/16/18 at 1:02 pm to lynxcat
quote:
If that is somehow the case, then the differential between junior and senior employee compensation must almost wholly come through RSUs.
This is absolutely the case based on my experience.
quote:
It’s illogical for Amazon to pay $200K+ for positions that make $80K almost everywhere else.
I think Senior financial analysts at tech companies are not comparable in skill level and job scope when comparing to other companies with he same job title. Ive seen many manager and directors at large fortune 500 companies take "title" demotions to work within tech for large comp packages.
Posted on 11/16/18 at 1:14 pm to LSUTOM07
You're right about demotion, you see that a lot at the Sr Manager and to a lesser extend manager level and above.
I will say that the on paper requirements for roles below Sr Manager really are no different than any other company. That being said, the demands are higher and people wash out quickly. There's a reason the average shelf life of an employee is about a year. Not just burn out from work but often misalignment between skill and job, i.e. that SFA that requires three years experience in FP&A is actually thrown into a role where operations makes up 75% of what they do.
Point is there is a lot more to the story than industry x pays this, or x years of experience pays this. The jobs in these locations absolutely will average 150k and the requirements in the job requisition wont be as high as all of you imagine
I will say that the on paper requirements for roles below Sr Manager really are no different than any other company. That being said, the demands are higher and people wash out quickly. There's a reason the average shelf life of an employee is about a year. Not just burn out from work but often misalignment between skill and job, i.e. that SFA that requires three years experience in FP&A is actually thrown into a role where operations makes up 75% of what they do.
Point is there is a lot more to the story than industry x pays this, or x years of experience pays this. The jobs in these locations absolutely will average 150k and the requirements in the job requisition wont be as high as all of you imagine
Posted on 11/16/18 at 3:16 pm to bostitch
What is the vesting schedule on Amazon RSUs?
I’ve heard about the wash out rates. We have a senior person who lasted less than a year at Amazon. I considered moving to Seattle at one point with the goal on getting onboard but chose against it. Personally, I would love that kind of working environment but it definitely isn’t your typical corporate environment.
I’ve heard about the wash out rates. We have a senior person who lasted less than a year at Amazon. I considered moving to Seattle at one point with the goal on getting onboard but chose against it. Personally, I would love that kind of working environment but it definitely isn’t your typical corporate environment.
Posted on 11/16/18 at 3:31 pm to lynxcat
quote:
What is the vesting schedule on Amazon RSUs?
I think it's: 1st year - 5%; 2nd year - 15%; every 6 months after - 20%
Most other tech companies are 25% per year.
Posted on 11/16/18 at 5:56 pm to lynxcat
Poster above got it right. You get a big stock grant paid in pieces yearly, year 1 5%, year 2 15%, year 3 and 4 20% each six months.
I think washout rates are high because we dont onboard well, kind of sink or swim. We are Also overly complex because we've grown so fast so some processes are arbitrarily frustrating
If these people would stick it out 9 times out of 10 they'd turn a corner and like it. The other key is understanding a company of this size and scope there is bottomless pit of work to do. People driven to move up or grow can kill it, but people who are driven solely because theyre afraid of failure end up burning themselves out.
Do well in your role and if you hate it, move to Alexa or AWS or Advertising or whatever. Being in everything opens up a lot of opportunities to move. Most people dont have the patience to earn it now though.
I think washout rates are high because we dont onboard well, kind of sink or swim. We are Also overly complex because we've grown so fast so some processes are arbitrarily frustrating
If these people would stick it out 9 times out of 10 they'd turn a corner and like it. The other key is understanding a company of this size and scope there is bottomless pit of work to do. People driven to move up or grow can kill it, but people who are driven solely because theyre afraid of failure end up burning themselves out.
Do well in your role and if you hate it, move to Alexa or AWS or Advertising or whatever. Being in everything opens up a lot of opportunities to move. Most people dont have the patience to earn it now though.
Posted on 11/17/18 at 7:30 am to bostitch
Given everything you said is true, why would amazon open 5,000 tech based jobs in Nashville? Seems like a ballsy move, especially considering the wash out rate? Why would someone looking to stay or get into tech move to Nashville and why does amazon need those jobs there outside of tax breaks?
Also with a vesting schedule of 5% the first year and washout rate averaging 1 year, seems like it would be difficult to hire outside talent to come there as opposed to staying in the northeast or out west with other back up options?
ETA: also you keep saying the pay rates stay the same around the country but Amazon only has the one main campus in Seattle still right? So how are you projecting this?
Also with a vesting schedule of 5% the first year and washout rate averaging 1 year, seems like it would be difficult to hire outside talent to come there as opposed to staying in the northeast or out west with other back up options?
ETA: also you keep saying the pay rates stay the same around the country but Amazon only has the one main campus in Seattle still right? So how are you projecting this?
This post was edited on 11/17/18 at 7:33 am
Posted on 11/17/18 at 8:54 am to bostitch
quote:
When I say personal experience, I mean that I am at Amazon now and have gone through the jobs that I mentioned. My team is on the block to go to Nashville potentially, I know all of the teams slated to go. I can say with confidence they are paid very well. Eta: to put in perspective, my entire team is under 27 and all make in the 225k range. I'm in my 30s and backfilled a 26 year old. I don't think you are familiar with the going rates at tech companies, theyre absurd
Are you guys working with a local relocation company? I did both Nissan and Bridgestone relocation projects and would love to have the opportunity to be a part of this one as well.
Posted on 11/17/18 at 11:54 am to baldona
40% of Amazon's employees are outside of Seattle. When you employ this many people you end up running out of local talent. People don't realize how many amazon operations are in their towns. Like Dallas with their AWS presence. As far as the reason goes, I dont think I should broadcast the exact thinking but trust me when i say it was more of a personal than business decision.
For washout rates, we also do sign on bonuses year 1 and year 2. So you get a giant paycheck while you wait on your stock to vest.
For washout rates, we also do sign on bonuses year 1 and year 2. So you get a giant paycheck while you wait on your stock to vest.
Posted on 11/17/18 at 1:38 pm to bostitch
I do so enjoy the usual suspects of the MT scoffing and using their at folks like yourself whom they later find out are way closer to the horses mouth than they imagined.
Thanks for the info, Bostitch. Appreciate your insight.
at folks like yourself whom they later find out are way closer to the horses mouth than they imagined. Thanks for the info, Bostitch. Appreciate your insight.
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