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2
Posted on 3/23/19 at 3:27 pm to LSUFreek
Rebounding would be an issue with our size
Posted on 3/23/19 at 3:29 pm to LSUFreek
quote:Naz and Bigby.
Why don’t teams play zone against LSU all game?
Posted on 3/23/19 at 3:30 pm to Metaloctopus
quote:
I agree with the OP's point. My dad and I were watching the game together today, and I was saying the same thing to him. He was saying "why is LSU taking s many threes in the second half?". I said because Maryland is doing what just about every team does to LSU in the second half. They are playing zone, and LSU just doesn't seem interested in even trying to penetrate it. They stand around. And that's when I told him teams should play zone all game.
I kind of disagree. Waters was penetrating Maryland’s defense a lot in the first half. We got open looks at the three because of drives and kick backs by Waters and Smart.
Maryland adjusted with the 2-3 zone in the second. You can break the zone by making the three or driving and dishing to off the ball to cutters. The problem with LSU is the cutters don’t recognize it or the defense gets their timing is off. Usually Mays gets it right and when Taylor gets it right it’s a beautiful dunk. But it’s hard to do against good teams.
Posted on 3/23/19 at 3:34 pm to LSUFreek
Effective zone team defense is hard to teach, and I hope you’re sitting down, but sometimes basketball players aren’t good at learning.
Posted on 3/23/19 at 3:40 pm to LSUFreek
Mainly because of our size and rebounding ability. Gotta be able to matchup size wise, which Maryland was able to do. Very impressed by their bigs. And post players in a zone defense can pick up quick fouls because they are closer to the rim. And it slows down your transition offense when going from the zone D to offense on a missed shot or whatever.
I mean I expect other teams to go zone a decent bit against us now. You’d be dumb not to. But it has its pros and cons.
I mean I expect other teams to go zone a decent bit against us now. You’d be dumb not to. But it has its pros and cons.
Posted on 3/23/19 at 3:45 pm to LSUFreek
LSU has legit depth, scorers, ball handlers and shooters. Can’t afford to play a lot of zone against that.
Posted on 3/23/19 at 3:45 pm to geaux88
We better because Mich St has a 2/3 match up zone that looks man to man.
Posted on 3/23/19 at 3:52 pm to bfniii
quote:
not true at all. the tigers have "figured it out" every time they see it. the problem is, it does significantly slow them down.
zone is not easy. there's a reason why teams don't feature it. you almost have to read each other's minds. plus, the offense can spread the wings to the sidelines which leaves the paint wide open for one of the best point guards in the country and 2 of the best big men in cbb.
of course, you could say once waters drives, collapse the zone but that's easier said than done because you have to beat waters to the paint and even if you do, that leaves javonte/sky/marlon open to do whatever.
it's a gamble that works for a few possessions. turgeon is a good coach and he didn't use it much so that tells you it's effectiveness has a limit.
I didn't say it was "easy", but it's better than man to man, where LSU dominates.
I don't know how you can possibly say LSU figures it out "every time they see it". That is just not true. They blow big leads every game as a result of their inability to beat the zone. LSU finds ways to pull it out, because they usually dominate the boards and make a living on second chance points.
Playing zone has not proven to be a "gamble" against LSU. The gamble is doing anything else against them, where they are pretty close to unstoppable.
This post was edited on 3/23/19 at 3:53 pm
Posted on 3/23/19 at 11:58 pm to Metaloctopus
quote:if you look at lsu's overall w/l record, it is true. they have figured it out every single game it's been thrown at them. it slows them down for sure but, they force the opponent out of it every single time
I don't know how you can possibly say LSU figures it out "every time they see it". That is just not true
quote:so i was right.
LSU finds ways to pull it out, because they usually dominate the boards and make a living on second chance points
quote:if you read through this thread, i think you'll see you're pretty much the only person with this opinion.
Playing zone has not proven to be a "gamble" against LSU. The gamble is doing anything else against them
Posted on 3/24/19 at 1:07 am to bfniii
On top of every other reason listed, running a zone effectively takes plenty of coaching to get it right, and lots of practice. It's not something you throw together in a weekend and hope it works.
And if you're going to run it for extended periods of time, you're going to need some nuances once the opponent starts to break it down. Otherwise it would become increasingly ineffective.
If you have that in your system, then yeah, it would make sense to play it a lot against LSU. Syracuse would play it all game, because that's what they do.
And if you're going to run it for extended periods of time, you're going to need some nuances once the opponent starts to break it down. Otherwise it would become increasingly ineffective.
If you have that in your system, then yeah, it would make sense to play it a lot against LSU. Syracuse would play it all game, because that's what they do.
Posted on 3/24/19 at 2:58 am to GumboPot
quote:Gumbopot knows what he is talking about. To add, it is very difficult for a defense to block out people in a zone which is why teams dont do it to us. And even though we are on the bottom half of the remaining teams in 3pt%, coaches know they still need to watch us because everybody outside of KBW and Elliot Williams CAN hit a 3.
1. Early in the game coaches believe their man defense can stay with LSU because they are fresh.
2. Coaches don’t want LSU figuring out the zone too early.
It’s just not beneficial for opposing teams to play zone on us for too long. Waters would eat that as would the crashing offensive rebounders.
Posted on 3/24/19 at 3:11 am to LSUFreek
1. LSU is too good for zone
2. Tremont Waters
3. It's usually harder to rebound out of zone
2. Tremont Waters
3. It's usually harder to rebound out of zone
Posted on 3/24/19 at 6:08 am to bfniii
quote:
if you look at lsu's overall w/l record, it is true. they have figured it out every single game it's been thrown at them. it slows them down for sure but, they force the opponent out of it every single time
They win DESPITE their struggles against the zone. They do not force the other team out of it. They just hang on for dear life, and use their athleticism on the boards to create extra opportunities. If we say that every team who wins a lot is therefore proving that they are "figuring out" whatever their problem is, then I guess the Chiefs won 12 games and came within a play or two of the Superbowl because they "figured out" their 31st ranked defensive issues.
Sometimes, you win in spite of something you do poorly.
quote:
LSU finds ways to pull it out, because they usually dominate the boards and make a living on second chance points
so i was right.
How does this prove you're right? What does my point about rebounds (specifically, offensive rebounds) and put back baskets have to do with figuring out the zone? You are really reaching, buddy. That's a team strength overcoming an obvious weakness. You are arguing with me as if from a perspective that I am somehow saying LSU isn't a good team. That isn't my point at all. LSU does a lot of things well, otherwise they wouldn't be where they are. But penetrating the zone isn't one of them.
quote:
if you read through this thread, i think you'll see you're pretty much the only person with this opinion.
I have read through this thread, and there are a lot of different opinions, several of which agree with the OP, and myself.
The zone isn't always going to work perfectly, I get that. Not every team runs it as well, I get that, too. But when you say "gamble", the worst thing you can do is say "screw it, we're going to do the one thing that no one has been able to stop LSU with all year, and when we fall behind by 15 or more, we'll switch it up, and see what happens".
That's a gamble. You pick your poison. Man to man is the wrong poison against LSU. And if you are concerned with LSU figuring it out (which, again, they haven't proven they can do with any consistency) you can always switch to a press, which at times gives LSU some problems with turnovers. And if you are a team that simply doesn't practice the zone, then your coach is clueless.
When LSU set a screen for Waters at the end, and he drove in for the winning layup, that's how you beat a zone. And, to be honest, I'm not sure if Maryland was still in a zone on that play. I'd have to go back and check. But, either way, you move guys around, and get the other team caught up in screens. I'm not saying it's easy, and that you should be able to score on every possession, but you have to make the effort to get the ball in the paint, in order to make the other team have to re-adjust. Unless you hit a lot of threes, which we usually don't. Why it takes our coaches so long to figure that out, is beyond me.
This post was edited on 3/24/19 at 8:11 am
Posted on 3/24/19 at 7:30 am to LSUFreek
I’m shocked by the answers in this thread. The OP makes a good point. If you guys have watched LSU this year, we have not scored well against a zone defense all year long. All of the answers in this thread are why “in theory” a zone defense is tough to run, but the actual results when run against LSU so not prove those “theories”.
Maryland was losing by 15 points when they switched to a zone defense with 16:00 left to go in the game. So what did they do for the game deciding possession? They went man to man.
I read a stat here yesterday where Maryland only ran a zone on 3% of all defensive possessions this season before our game. And that is the true answer to the OP. Coaches would hate to lose a game running something their team is not used to running just because a scouting report says the other team isn’t good against it. Maryland got to this point in the season by playing man to man defense so their coaching staff decided to live and die by it at the end.
Maryland was losing by 15 points when they switched to a zone defense with 16:00 left to go in the game. So what did they do for the game deciding possession? They went man to man.
I read a stat here yesterday where Maryland only ran a zone on 3% of all defensive possessions this season before our game. And that is the true answer to the OP. Coaches would hate to lose a game running something their team is not used to running just because a scouting report says the other team isn’t good against it. Maryland got to this point in the season by playing man to man defense so their coaching staff decided to live and die by it at the end.
Posted on 3/24/19 at 8:13 am to TOKEN
quote:
Taylor must come out when we face zone
1. Either play 3 Guard Lineup Smart Waters Mays
or
2. Put Days in since he’s a better shooter than Taylor
Bottom line is Taylor isn’t respected outside so everyone else is getting a man and a half.
I agree with this.
Posted on 3/24/19 at 8:16 am to Choupique19
quote:
I’m shocked by the answers in this thread. The OP makes a good point. If you guys have watched LSU this year, we have not scored well against a zone defense all year long. All of the answers in this thread are why “in theory” a zone defense is tough to run, but the actual results when run against LSU so not prove those “theories”.
I'm in complete agreement with you.
quote:
I read a stat here yesterday where Maryland only ran a zone on 3% of all defensive possessions this season before our game. And that is the true answer to the OP. Coaches would hate to lose a game running something their team is not used to running just because a scouting report says the other team isn’t good against it. Maryland got to this point in the season by playing man to man defense so their coaching staff decided to live and die by it at the end.
I was unaware of that stat for Maryland, but that is an excellent point. So all the people saying "well some teams don't play the zone very well" can't say anything here. So Maryland did something they rarely do, and look how effective it was, anyway. I also didn't notice that Maryland had switched back to man to man for that play, as I was too caught up in the moment. But that illustrates even more how foolish it is to go away from what is working. I've been trying to drive this point home.
This post was edited on 3/24/19 at 8:18 am
Posted on 3/24/19 at 8:28 am to Ryan3232
quote:
Gumbopot knows what he is talking about. To add, it is very difficult for a defense to block out people in a zone which is why teams dont do it to us. And even though we are on the bottom half of the remaining teams in 3pt%, coaches know they still need to watch us because everybody outside of KBW and Elliot Williams CAN hit a 3.
It’s just not beneficial for opposing teams to play zone on us for too long. Waters would eat that as would the crashing offensive rebounders.
We pull games out in the end BECAUSE of our athleticism and crashing the boards for second chance points. And sure, playing a zone might make it harder to box out, but I have to respectfully disagree when you say that, as a result of this, it is not beneficial for teams to stay in zone.
The reason being, that as good as LSU is at offensive rebounding, it's much harder to rely on second chance points than it is to be able to drive in, almost at will, when teams try to play man to man. That's why our leads keep evaporating. Could LSU have a lead to hang onto if they played against the zone for the majority of the game? And I don't exactly know what evidence you have to support the idea that if a team stayed in zone for too long, that Waters would "eat that. If he isn't eating it for the duration of time that we see this team against the zone, why should we just assume that anything would change? It's not like the zone is a novelty, every time they see it. They see it pretty much every game. Shouldn't they have figured it out by now?
This post was edited on 3/24/19 at 8:31 am
Posted on 3/24/19 at 9:01 am to LSUFreek
Teams are proud and even though they all talk about how talented LSU is they feel we are inferior.
KY and Tennessee refused to go zone and my inkling is Izzo won't either.
KY and Tennessee refused to go zone and my inkling is Izzo won't either.
Posted on 3/24/19 at 9:40 am to Tiger1988
LSU offense is 30th percentile this season against a zone why are people acting like wade had the it figured out but Benford doesn’t? The team has been poor all year against a zone.
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