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Which SEC Basketball School Had the Biggest Roster Turnover in 2022?
Posted on 5/20/22 at 8:17 am
Posted on 5/20/22 at 8:17 am
Certainly understand the circumstances around LSU are unique this year (why we are in that position has been debated to the point of exhaustion), but LSU does not have the biggest roster turnover this offseason.
Arkansas actually has more newcomers at 11, and A$M not far behind at 9.
There has been a lot made of LSU's roster turnover, but when looking at the larger landscape, this turnover is not unusual in 2022.
In fact, just last year LSU had 9 newcomers.
Seems like being able to manage and replenish a roster is the price of doing business in the transfer portal era.
All that said, McMahon did an outstanding job putting this roster together for 22-23. It is not what it would have been had the athletic administration supported Wade, but it should a roster that is good enough to finish in the top 6 in the league and have a resume good enough to make the tournament.
Arkansas actually has more newcomers at 11, and A$M not far behind at 9.
There has been a lot made of LSU's roster turnover, but when looking at the larger landscape, this turnover is not unusual in 2022.
In fact, just last year LSU had 9 newcomers.
Seems like being able to manage and replenish a roster is the price of doing business in the transfer portal era.
All that said, McMahon did an outstanding job putting this roster together for 22-23. It is not what it would have been had the athletic administration supported Wade, but it should a roster that is good enough to finish in the top 6 in the league and have a resume good enough to make the tournament.
This post was edited on 5/20/22 at 8:21 am
4
Posted on 5/20/22 at 8:44 am to ellessuuuu
Its not so much the turnover, as it at one point we had 0 scholarship players. And we filled the roster very well in a short amount of time.
Posted on 5/20/22 at 9:14 am to ellessuuuu
I always expected us to grab some solid transfers
But grabbing 4 High school kids(3 4stars) in the time McMahon n Co did is what really impressed me. Didn't think we would see that.
Plus retaining Miller/Mwani/Justice which are 3 guys that have some really good potential was just extra
Only thing is I wish we could have kept is Gaines and Reid but alas what are you gonna do.
But grabbing 4 High school kids(3 4stars) in the time McMahon n Co did is what really impressed me. Didn't think we would see that.
Plus retaining Miller/Mwani/Justice which are 3 guys that have some really good potential was just extra
Only thing is I wish we could have kept is Gaines and Reid but alas what are you gonna do.
Posted on 5/20/22 at 9:49 am to ellessuuuu
He's done awesome. Have we heard anything or a time frame for the expected sanctions?
Posted on 5/20/22 at 9:50 am to ellessuuuu
It was losing the players they did including those 5* HS kids and what that roster would look like compared to this one. This one MAY have a little more experience than what Wade had coming back, but it isn’t close to what he had coming in.
2022-23 was a championship caliber roster.
2022-23 was a championship caliber roster.
Posted on 5/20/22 at 9:58 am to Tiger1988
Wrong
Posted on 5/20/22 at 9:59 am to JTA1985
This roster is better than any roster Wade put together.
Posted on 5/20/22 at 10:11 am to Pnels08
quote:
I always expected us to grab some solid transfers
Truth be told, LSU probably did a bit "worse" than I expected in the transfer market if you take out the Murray St. guys who were essentially a byproduct of hiring their coach. Fountain, Coleman and Hayes look like they could be solid role players. But they certainly weren't guys who were looked as major impact transfers
quote:
But grabbing 4 High school kids(3 4stars) in the time McMahon n Co did is what really impressed me. Didn't think we would see that.
Agree 100%. I figured HS recruiting this year would be a wash given the circumstances in which McMahon took over and the timing of the coaching change (so late in the recruiting calendar). That he and his staff were able to bring in 3 (appx) top 100 prospects at a time where the pool of such players was relatively small exceeded all reasonable expectations.
To me, THAT was the most encouraging part of the rebuild when looking towards the future.
Posted on 5/20/22 at 10:16 am to SLIPSHITE
quote:
Have we heard anything or a time frame for the expected sanctions?
No...and you probably won't.
The timing of such is really just an educated guess. It took over 2 years for the the NC State case to work through the IARP process before sanctions were handed down. LSU is one of 6 schools with cases in that process, and they were one of the last to receive a NOA. Therefore, if you assume the IARP is working sequentially in handling the cases, it seems unlikely the matter will be resolved before the start of this season. Again though, this is all pretty new as there has only been one case in history decided by the IARP
Posted on 5/20/22 at 11:00 am to SLIPSHITE
quote:
Have we heard anything or a time frame for the expected sanctions?
You won't hear anything until at least the Fall. Kansas is well ahead of us in the IARP process, and they are hanging a banner...
Posted on 5/20/22 at 11:13 am to Tiger1988
quote:
2022-23 was a championship caliber roster.
Unless Wade magically learned how to fix the lack of discipline that plagued his teams for each of his seasons and suddenly became better than an average game day coach, he wasn’t going any farther than winning a game or two in the big dance.
And I supported the guy. But he did nothing to show me he was in the same universe as the elite coaches in terms of player development or in-game coaching
When you look at all the dynamics and the context of what McMahon did, it’s pretty incredible.
The top transfer class and a top 16 high school class is amazing given the circumstances.
It’s unfortunate that Wade put LSU in the position that he did where his future would even need to be debated, but Wade did that to himself. Why people continue to cry about it is a mystery.
Compared to our largely mediocre history as a basketball program , Wade was really good. If you compare resumes coming in, McMahon is far more impressive. Same result if you compare initial recruiting classes
Everything I’ve seen to date suggests McMahon is by far the better all around coach
This post was edited on 5/20/22 at 11:16 am
Posted on 5/20/22 at 11:23 am to Toptigerfan86
quote:
Everything I’ve seen to date suggests McMahon is by far the better all around coach
Time will tell. I've heard these criticisms of Wade, undisciplined teams, average game day coach, didn't develope players. In sum, it similar to the uneducated crowd that constantly says "all he can do is recruit and win with talent." People who make this comments reveal how little they know about college basketball. Did Wade's team have talent, sure, were Wade's teams ever the most talented team in the SEC, nope. Tennessee has consistently had higher classes than LSU, yet Wade has largely owned Barnes. Kentucky has had the best talent and we've won the same number titles over the last 4 years.
These are largely people repeating what they have heard, and not reflected in the results. His teams in the last 4 years have been consistently at the top of the league. He did that with multiple roster types and styles (from the highest offensive efficiency team in the league to the best defensive team in the league the next year). As far as development, he took Eason was a minor role player at Cincy and helped him become a lottery pick in one year.
As far as McMahon's resume being better, McMahon is also older than Wade. If you compare the two resumes to date, Wade's is significantly better. More players drafted, SEC championship, 4 straight NCAA appearance.
No doubt McMahon has a better resume at 43 than Wade did at 34, the question will be what does McMahon do with a program that is much better shape than the one Wade inherited - even with potential looming sanctions.
This post was edited on 5/20/22 at 11:28 am
Posted on 5/20/22 at 11:31 am to ellessuuuu
Wade is a good coach, I agree. He had lots of strengths. He also had his deficits. One of those for most years was roster construction. McMahon has put together the most well balanced roster LSU has had since wades best year.
All I can do in terms of comparing the two is take apples to apples. That’s resumes coming in and initial recruiting class.
You’re correct. Time will tell. So far so good.
All I can do in terms of comparing the two is take apples to apples. That’s resumes coming in and initial recruiting class.
You’re correct. Time will tell. So far so good.
Posted on 5/20/22 at 11:33 am to IM_4_LSU
quote:
as it at one point we had 0 scholarship players.
Was legit worried. Was thinking about open tryouts. Coach got his shite together and brought in a solid team VERY quickly. Will be fun to watch!
Posted on 5/20/22 at 11:33 am to ellessuuuu
quote:
No doubt McMahon has a better resume at 43 than Wade did at 34, the question will be what does McMahon do with a program that is much better shape than the one Wade inherited - even with potential looming sanctions.
I don't know anyone can possibly say that the McMahon "inherited" a "program in much better shape than the one Wade inherited" when McMahon had zero scholarship players returning. He built this team in a month. As much as I was impressed with the results Wade achieved in his first few years, what McMahon inherited was worse and, at least so far, his rebuild has been more impressive.
Posted on 5/20/22 at 11:34 am to ellessuuuu
quote:Enough with this nonsense. McMahon had ZERO scholarship players and had to recruit 3 of them back. Wade inherited a full roster and ran several of them off. And to blow off looming sanctions as no big deal is incredibly stupid.
what does McMahon do with a program that is much better shape than the one Wade inherited - even with potential looming sanctions.
So McMahon: ZERO scholarship players, looming NCAA sanctions
Wade: Full team of scholarship players, no sanctions.
Try to build up how bad cJJ's last year was, but he was a lousy coach and it was a single bad year. A single bad year record wise does not define where a program is.
Posted on 5/20/22 at 11:52 am to mmcgrath
quote:
Wade inherited a full roster and ran several of them off
It was a 10-win team and he rebuilt the roster in 2 years winning an SEC Championship and going 9-0 on the road in conference with multiple Freshman playing significant minutes, but yeah, he was only an average coach and couldn't develop players...
And the transfer portal didn't exist.
quote:
A single bad year record wise does not define where a program is.
Are you serious, the five years prior to Wade LSU was 90-72 overall and 42-48 in Conference with one NCAA appearance and no NCAA tournament wins.
McMahon is taking over a program that is 108-54 and 56-33 in Conference with 4 straight NCAA appearances, SEC title, and Sweet 16 appearances in the last five years.
Come on, man, you really want to compare the state of the program at these points in time.
This post was edited on 5/20/22 at 11:53 am
Posted on 5/20/22 at 11:52 am to JTA1985
Kind of hard to judge when they haven't played a game yet. So many fans forget the games aren't played on paper. The recruiting stars, pre-season polls, accolades from sportscasters and fans don't mean a thing when they start to play the games. All of this potential has to transform into reality and as a long time Tiger fan I know it doesn't always happen.
Posted on 5/20/22 at 12:07 pm to Tiger1988
quote:
2022-23 was a championship caliber roster.
I agree it was gonna be, but I’m not so upset about it now. Two months ago I was one of the ones on the board who bitched the most about this but McMahon has already won me over. If he can continue to recruit at this level we could have another championship caliber roster soon enough.
Posted on 5/20/22 at 12:46 pm to mmcgrath
quote:
Enough with this nonsense. McMahon had ZERO scholarship players and had to recruit 3 of them back. Wade inherited a full roster and ran several of them off. And to blow off looming sanctions as no big deal is incredibly stupid.
So McMahon: ZERO scholarship players, looming NCAA sanctions
Wade: Full team of scholarship players, no sanctions.
Wade inherited a full roster...because the "one-free-transfer" rule did not exist at that time. A roster that was coming off a last place finish in the SEC with the worst conference record in school history. However, the transfer rules at the time made it much more difficult to quickly turnover a weak roster. That meant year one Wade had essentially a roster of underachieving players, late freshmen adds, and a few grad transfers. If you recall, that team was picked in the preseason to finish dead last in the SEC. Wade essentially took Tremont Waters, Duop Reath, and a bunch of guys who had not done much in their LSU careers and made them a winning team.
McMahon inherited a roster that (eventually) all entered the portal. Wade didn't have to deal with that burden. But McMahon also had the HUGE benefit of being able to bring in immediately eligible transfers. Of which he brought in six.
Who inherited a "worse" situation is completely subjective. Wade took over a bad team and a program that had reached a pretty significant level of apathy. McMahon took over a program under significant scrutiny and had to essentially build an entirely new roster. For Wade, he had the advantage of knowing he had returning players...but a signficant disadvantage in trying to bring in winning player. For McMahon he had the significant disadvantage of possibly zero players returning from the year before. However, he had the advantage of rebuilding the roster much more easily.
Who is the better coach? We will find out soon enough.
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