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re: Problems at Left Guard?
Posted on 8/12/19 at 11:38 am to RB10
Posted on 8/12/19 at 11:38 am to RB10
quote:
Eventually, you people will pull your heads out of the sand and realize that fall camp actually does matter.
Context!
Tell me all about these sacks that have you melting like a girl
This post was edited on 8/12/19 at 11:40 am
0
Posted on 8/12/19 at 11:39 am to thunderbird1100
quote:
from LAST season, which while somewhat relevant, isn't as relevant to now as it was last season. Guys improve, positions change, etc...
Last season, when discussing incumbent players, is always more relevant than "made up" stats from scrimmages. Actual games will always matter more than scrimmages, that's just common sense.
quote:
Your original conclusion was that because we gave up 5 sacks in a scrimmage the OL still sucks. You keep repeating about last year when that was never even in your original argument. You based your opinion that OL still sucks based on a very limited amount of information from what just happened this past weekend.
Incorrect. I've already explained how my opinion isn't based on one scrimmage. I'm not doing it again.
This post was edited on 8/12/19 at 11:42 am
Posted on 8/12/19 at 11:39 am to RB10
quote:
Is that my conclusion? Are we ignoring last year's data, because I know for a fact that Joe Burrow doesn't "suck".
You never mentioned last year until pestered about it, again NOBODY denies last year the OL didnt suck. Your conclusion was based on this recent scrimmage however of "well they gave up 5 sacks, so no improvement at all" - when we're just all saying you cant draw conclusions from that when you continue to do so. If you just want to say well they sucked last year so I'll have to see it to believe it this year, then that's fine...YOU brought in the scrimmage and limited information
This post was edited on 8/12/19 at 11:40 am
Posted on 8/12/19 at 11:41 am to thunderbird1100
quote:
Your conclusion was based on this recent scrimmage however of "well they gave up 5 sacks, so no improvement at all"
Jesus Christ dude. I'm not sure how many times you have to be told that this is incorrect.
If I say "The sky is blue", and then walk outside and confirm that the sky is indeed blue, I didn't come to the conclusion that the sky is blue based on that one instance of seeing it. It just reaffirmed my belief that my conclusion is accurate.
Does that help you wrap your head around what's happening here.
This post was edited on 8/12/19 at 11:44 am
Posted on 8/12/19 at 11:42 am to thunderbird1100
quote:
well they gave up 5 sacks, so no improvement at all"
Yep, and provides no *context*
Posted on 8/12/19 at 11:44 am to RB10
quote:
Last season, when discussing incumbent players, is always more relevant than made up stats from scrimmages. Actual games will always matter more than scrimmages, that's just common sense.
Oh so now 5 sacks is made up, I thought you were using it as the gospel in that the OL still sucks, that's what did in that original post
quote:
Incorrect. I've already explained how my opinion isn't based on one scrimmage. I'm not doing it again.
You have repeatedly referenced the scrimmage stats as if they are relevant without context - hint, they arent without the context. This is the ENTIRE point.
Posted on 8/12/19 at 11:45 am to RB10
quote:
I'm not sure how many times you have to be told that this is incorrect.
I can quote you multiple times in this thread where you reference the scrimmage and the "OL gave up 5 sacks" and say there's no improvement, they still suck, etc...
The whole point is 5 sacks given up means NOTHING without knowing who gave them up. When I questioned you on this, you avoided the topic like the plague for pages, then finally said "It doesn't matter who gave them up"
You literally still dont get it.
This post was edited on 8/12/19 at 11:46 am
Posted on 8/12/19 at 11:46 am to thunderbird1100
quote:
Oh so now 5 sacks is made up
I'm just trying to find common ground with you guys. They weren't "real" sacks, they were just touches correct?
quote:
You have repeatedly referenced the scrimmage stats as if they are relevant without context - hint, they arent without the context. This is the ENTIRE point.
Wait, you mean someone had the audacity to reference the most recent data point when discussing a topic?
The sheer nerve!
Posted on 8/12/19 at 11:47 am to thunderbird1100
quote:
I can quote you multiple times in this thread where you reference the scrimmage and the "OL gave up 5 sacks" and say there's no improvement, they still suck, etc...
So I'm using the stat to reaffirm my position? My position that has been the same throughout this entire offseason?
This is literally the point that I keep trying to beat into your skull?
This post was edited on 8/12/19 at 11:48 am
Posted on 8/12/19 at 11:47 am to RB10
quote:
I'm just trying to find common ground with you guys. They weren't "real" sacks, they were just touches correct?
I'm not in that at all, try and focus.
quote:
Wait, you mean someone had the audacity to reference the most recent data point when discussing a topic?
"Dow, S&P 500 are down today"
Would yo go and sell all your stocks after hearing that, or maybe investigate a little further into WHAT actual stocks are falling before drawing any conclusion about what to do with your stocks?
Do you finally get it?
Posted on 8/12/19 at 11:49 am to RB10
quote:
So I'm using the stat to reaffirm my position?
You're using a VAGUE statistic without a lot of context to come to a conclusion, which is dumb.
If I said, damn our pass defense sucks, we gave up 275 yards passing. Would just agree or ask for more context, like how many attempts? How many TD and INT? What if in that game we gave up 275 yards passing, but it was on 25 of 52 passing, 1 TD, 3 INT....would you still think the pass defense sucks?
This post was edited on 8/12/19 at 11:50 am
Posted on 8/12/19 at 11:52 am to thunderbird1100
quote:
You're using a VAGUE statistic without a lot of context to come to a conclusion, which is dumb.
Incorrect. For the last time, this is incorrect.
I'm not going any further in this discussion until you wrap your head around the fact that I haven't come to any conclusion because of one scrimmage.
Reaffirming an already established opinion and forming a new one are two completely different sentiments. If you'd like to continue this discussion, please grasp this simple concept.
This post was edited on 8/12/19 at 11:54 am
Posted on 8/12/19 at 11:55 am to RB10
quote:
It just reaffirmed my belief that my conclusion is accurate.
Well if so then you're just using raw information with absolutely no context to affirm your belief that nothing has changed
That's a terrible way to come to conclusions.
Posted on 8/12/19 at 11:56 am to RB10
quote:
I'm not going any further in this discussion until you wrap your head around the fact that I haven't come to any conclusion because of one scrimmage.
You've used that statistic throughout this thread many times, stop lying and trying to change your tune.
You are using that stat to (help) form an opinion, bringing up last year is not what is being discussed. I am referencing specifically you using "5 sacks given up" in a scrimmage and saying our OL still isn't improved or any good.
I specifically asked you if who gave up the sacks is relevant, and again after ignoring the question for SEVERAL pages, you finally answered and said it doesnt. You literally dont think it matters if a 3rd string walk on gives up a sack in a scrimmage vs. a definite 1st teamer like Charles, Cush or Lewis. This is why nobody can take you seriously.
Posted on 8/12/19 at 11:57 am to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
Well if so then you're just using raw information with absolutely no context to affirm your belief that nothing has changed
That's a terrible way to come to conclusions.
As opposed to using no information, with no context, to affirm your belief that everything has changed.
Posted on 8/12/19 at 12:00 pm to thunderbird1100
quote:
You've used that statistic throughout this thread many times, stop lying and trying to change your tune.
Yes, I've used the most recent data point for the offensive line to judge the offensive line.
We've been through this.
quote:
You are using that stat to (help) form an opinion, bringing up last year is not what is being discussed. I am referencing specifically you using "5 sacks given up" in a scrimmage and saying our OL still isn't improved or any good.
At least you've finally grasped that the scrimmage isn't forming my conclusion. Well, sort of.
quote:
I specifically asked you if who gave up the sacks is relevant, and again after ignoring the question for SEVERAL pages, you finally answered and said it doesnt. You literally dont think it matters if a 3rd string walk on gives up a sack in a scrimmage vs. a definite 1st teamer like Charles, Cush or Lewis. This is why nobody can take you seriously.
No, I don't think it matters when teams generally play 7+ offensive linemen in a season.
I also think it's sad that you keep using "3rd string" like it somehow invalidates my entire opinion that the offensive line is struggling. It's particularly sad since you don't actually know whether the point you're using to argue mine is true or not.
Basically, I'm taking a season's worth of data to a conclusion and using a more recent bit of info to reaffirm my position.
You're calling me stupid because the "+ scrimmage" MAY NOT be as bad as it seems. You don't actually know it's not as bad, it's just a possibility that you're latching yourself to.
I'm the one who's stupid though.
This post was edited on 8/12/19 at 12:03 pm
Posted on 8/12/19 at 12:05 pm to RB10
quote:
As opposed to using no information, with no context, to affirm your belief that everything has changed.
I think using last year certainly has some relevancy, I also think using more SPECIFIC stats from this past scrimmage would also have relevancy. A VAGUE statistic like "we gave up 5 sacks across the whole scrimmage" doesnt tell me anything for sure about 5 guys we'll be starting in 3 weeks. If it was "The 1st team OL gave up 3 of the 5 sacks on only 20 pass attempts" I would worry, if it was "The 1st team OL gave up only 1 of the 5 sacks on 30 pass attempts" I would probably worry a lot less.
Posted on 8/12/19 at 12:06 pm to RB10
quote:
As opposed to using no information
Inbetween bad info and no info is a huge spectrum.
If I said QBs went 10-25 in a scrimmage would you say we are in for a terrible passing season?
Now suppose you then learn this scrimmage was spent working on downfield passing, most were thrown by third string and walkons, and 4 passes were dropped. Makes a hell of a difference in your projection eh?
Posted on 8/12/19 at 12:07 pm to RB10
quote:
Yes, I've used the most recent data point for the offensive line to judge the offensive line.
Stop bringing up last year then, I'm not referencing you bringing that up.
quote:
At least you've finally grasped that the scrimmage isn't forming my conclusion. Well, sort of.
You've said it throughout the thread, it's 100% apart of your "opinion".
quote:
No, I don't think it matters when teams generally play 7+ offensive linemen in a season.
Again, walk ons arent going to play, 3rd team guys likely arent going to play, MAYBRE a few 2nd teamers have to step up and take some snaps. All we care about right now is what the 1st team OL looked like, if a guy got beat 3x for a sack on the 3rd team and looked terrible all fall, guess what, he probably isn't stepping up and starting at any point in the season either.
To say who gave up the sacks is completely irrelevant, which you did, is obnoxiously stupid.
This post was edited on 8/12/19 at 12:08 pm
Posted on 8/12/19 at 12:08 pm to thunderbird1100
quote:
I think using last year certainly has some relevancy, I also think using more SPECIFIC stats from this past scrimmage would also have relevancy.
Well, I hate to break it to you, but we aren't going to get specific stats. So, rather than just throw it all out because I don't like what was given, I'm going to take the information and use it.
You don't have to, I don't really care. I choose to.
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