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Started By
Message
Judging this baseball season as a whole.
Posted on 6/11/19 at 9:10 am
Posted on 6/11/19 at 9:10 am
Now that it's sadly come to an end, we can look at the full season and point out the good and the bad.
It's hard to take in this season and label it as a success overall. It was up and down, with problems with hitting and pitching at certain points. Inconsistent is probably the one word that would describe this season best. Normally I say that that reaching a Super Regional should be the measuring stick (more on that in a bit), but with this season it was Omaha or bust for me. Not sure if that is fair or not, but it was the case with the high expectations of this team. Obviously that didn't play out, so I'll label this season as a disappointment.
Now, why do I set the bar at a SR? In a 3 game series, against another good team, literally anything can happen. We saw that on full display in this SR. One bad outing from an ace, one bad bounce, one injury, or just some weird crap can happen which causes you to drop a game in a 3 game set, and then you are battling for your life. We saw Henry leave after the second, which killed Peterson for the weekend. We saw weird base running mistakes, which hadn't happened all season derail rallies. I know, and understand, this is LSU, and teams are judged on making to Omaha. I think if we are consistently in a SR, we will be in Omaha plenty. So, don't blast me too hard for setting a bar of a SR. I still think this season was a disappointment, with being eliminated in the Supers.
Now, let's dig into the coaches, and possible changes.
I'll start with Mainieri. Do I think he needs to be fired because of this season? Absolutely not. A lot has been said of him becoming complacent, or lazy. If this is true, then he does need to go. Nothing concrete suggest that he is complacent or lazy though. If someone has some solid info of this being the case, I'll jump on the fire Mainieri train. Until then, or with another disappointing season, he has earned the right to retire. I would love to see some new, young, fire as the head coach of LSU baseball. It may be needed soon, but I'm not going to say he should be fired yet.
Dunn - He is a well respected pitching coach. I think the main reason we aren't playing for a national title is due to pitching injuries. Are those injuries a stroke of bad luck, or is Dunn and/or the training staff playing a part in them? I don't have the answers to this. If Dunn/trainers are over working or not handling injuries properly, then they need to go. If anybody can give me evidence of this taking place, I would love to have it. I'll then jump on the fire Dunn train.
Cain - here is where I expect the most backlash. I was super high on Cain coming into this season, and I remain that way. So much so that if you asked me which one of the three coaches I would hope remains, if two of the three were to go, I would want Cain to be the one to stay. I think his recruiting is phenomenal, and will pay dividends for LSU. I know it's LSU, and we always recruit well. Cain does a tremendous job of figuring out who the best players are that will turn down MLB money, and he gets them to campus. Last season was a great class. This season, with the exception of Cairo (which it was reported lied to the coaches about numbers) was the same. I think Cain will keep this level at an all-time high, and this will translate to success in the future, starting next season if we have a healthy pitching staff.
Ochinko/Hitting coach - the non paid position hurts us here. Should we have a more proven hitting coach? I think so, but does it have to come at the expense of losing one of the above coaches? Hopefully Mainieri can figure something out here, and make some kind of needed changes to improve in this area for next season. I'm not going to pretend like I know how easy, or difficult, it would be to get a proven guy here as a "volunteer" coach. If it's possible, it needs to happen.
All that said, I'm still very optimistic about next season. If we come out with a healthy pitching staff next year, I think we can see the results we expected this year. I know we lose some this year, but I think the position players will be plenty good enough next season. It will all depend on healthy pitching.
It's hard to take in this season and label it as a success overall. It was up and down, with problems with hitting and pitching at certain points. Inconsistent is probably the one word that would describe this season best. Normally I say that that reaching a Super Regional should be the measuring stick (more on that in a bit), but with this season it was Omaha or bust for me. Not sure if that is fair or not, but it was the case with the high expectations of this team. Obviously that didn't play out, so I'll label this season as a disappointment.
Now, why do I set the bar at a SR? In a 3 game series, against another good team, literally anything can happen. We saw that on full display in this SR. One bad outing from an ace, one bad bounce, one injury, or just some weird crap can happen which causes you to drop a game in a 3 game set, and then you are battling for your life. We saw Henry leave after the second, which killed Peterson for the weekend. We saw weird base running mistakes, which hadn't happened all season derail rallies. I know, and understand, this is LSU, and teams are judged on making to Omaha. I think if we are consistently in a SR, we will be in Omaha plenty. So, don't blast me too hard for setting a bar of a SR. I still think this season was a disappointment, with being eliminated in the Supers.
Now, let's dig into the coaches, and possible changes.
I'll start with Mainieri. Do I think he needs to be fired because of this season? Absolutely not. A lot has been said of him becoming complacent, or lazy. If this is true, then he does need to go. Nothing concrete suggest that he is complacent or lazy though. If someone has some solid info of this being the case, I'll jump on the fire Mainieri train. Until then, or with another disappointing season, he has earned the right to retire. I would love to see some new, young, fire as the head coach of LSU baseball. It may be needed soon, but I'm not going to say he should be fired yet.
Dunn - He is a well respected pitching coach. I think the main reason we aren't playing for a national title is due to pitching injuries. Are those injuries a stroke of bad luck, or is Dunn and/or the training staff playing a part in them? I don't have the answers to this. If Dunn/trainers are over working or not handling injuries properly, then they need to go. If anybody can give me evidence of this taking place, I would love to have it. I'll then jump on the fire Dunn train.
Cain - here is where I expect the most backlash. I was super high on Cain coming into this season, and I remain that way. So much so that if you asked me which one of the three coaches I would hope remains, if two of the three were to go, I would want Cain to be the one to stay. I think his recruiting is phenomenal, and will pay dividends for LSU. I know it's LSU, and we always recruit well. Cain does a tremendous job of figuring out who the best players are that will turn down MLB money, and he gets them to campus. Last season was a great class. This season, with the exception of Cairo (which it was reported lied to the coaches about numbers) was the same. I think Cain will keep this level at an all-time high, and this will translate to success in the future, starting next season if we have a healthy pitching staff.
Ochinko/Hitting coach - the non paid position hurts us here. Should we have a more proven hitting coach? I think so, but does it have to come at the expense of losing one of the above coaches? Hopefully Mainieri can figure something out here, and make some kind of needed changes to improve in this area for next season. I'm not going to pretend like I know how easy, or difficult, it would be to get a proven guy here as a "volunteer" coach. If it's possible, it needs to happen.
All that said, I'm still very optimistic about next season. If we come out with a healthy pitching staff next year, I think we can see the results we expected this year. I know we lose some this year, but I think the position players will be plenty good enough next season. It will all depend on healthy pitching.
14
Posted on 6/11/19 at 9:14 am to Hold That Tiger 10
quote:
I'll start with Mainieri. Do I think he needs to be fired because of this season?
Most loses in back to back seasons since before Skip Bertman was coach. More than 2006 and 2007.
Posted on 6/11/19 at 9:16 am to Hold That Tiger 10
quote:
Inconsistent is probably the one word that would describe this season best.
I agreed with you on Cain to start the season.
Serious question regarding Storz, Labas, McMurray & Garza
When did they get injured?
Posted on 6/11/19 at 9:18 am to Hold That Tiger 10
Came into the this thread and saw how long it was expecting some deep in depth analysis on the season but instead got "it was a disappointment" and then a buncha surface level shite that looks like it could be copied and pasted from any number of the dumbass threads that have been on the board the last 3 days.
Would read again.
Would read again.
Posted on 6/11/19 at 9:20 am to Hold That Tiger 10
Great post. I agree for the most part, with a small exception here:
I know we won't be able to prove this until Cain leaves, but I'd like to know how much LSU recruits itself. LSU baseball has a reputation, and that makes it much easier on a recruiter. If we can get a guy who can offer a bit more as far as (hitting?) coaching goes, I'd be okay with parting ways with Cain.
quote:
I think his recruiting is phenomenal, and will pay dividends for LSU. I know it's LSU, and we always recruit well.
I know we won't be able to prove this until Cain leaves, but I'd like to know how much LSU recruits itself. LSU baseball has a reputation, and that makes it much easier on a recruiter. If we can get a guy who can offer a bit more as far as (hitting?) coaching goes, I'd be okay with parting ways with Cain.
Posted on 6/11/19 at 9:21 am to The Boat
quote:
Most loses in back to back seasons since before Skip Bertman was coach. More than 2006 and 2007.
This right here. Spot on Boat.
This is my main issue. 10-14 games over .500 at the end of a 66 game season is not good enough.
Posted on 6/11/19 at 9:22 am to The Boat
quote:
Most loses in back to back seasons since before Skip Bertman was coach. More than 2006 and 2007.
Last season we expected. Was a bad season, by LSU standards, but it was still expected. Yes, there were too many L's the past two seasons but this one did end with a SR. Still not good enough, and it is a reason to take a deep look into how to fix the issues. Does not warrant a firing of Mainieri this year though.
Posted on 6/11/19 at 9:23 am to LSUJML
quote:
I agreed with you on Cain to start the season.
Serious question regarding Storz, Labas, McMurray & Garza
When did they get injured?
What are you trying to get at?
Posted on 6/11/19 at 9:24 am to The Boat
quote:
Most loses in back to back seasons since before Skip Bertman was coach. More than 2006 and 2007.
I'll admit, this season pushed me over the fence on thinking it was time to move on from PM. However, that said, this year just felt like nothing ever really went our way until the very end of the year.
Injuries to our pitching staff were killers, and we could never seem to get our hitters and pitchers going at the same time. Either we weren't hitting and our pitchers were keeping us in games, or our pitchers would get off to bad starts and we'd have to come from way behind, or we'd get a lead and our bullpen would blow it. It just felt like the team never came together. Until the end of the season, when we totally shite the bed against FSU.
Like I said, I'm pretty much done with PM, but it's not because of the number of losses in the regular season.
Posted on 6/11/19 at 9:24 am to LSUJML
quote:
Serious question regarding Storz, Labas, McMurray & Garza
Storz came in injured, pitched a bit, aggravated/reinjured
Labas came in injured, pitched a decent amount, reinjured
McMurray was injured his senior year of HS. He's only thrown like 2 innings since the summer after his Junior year. He had shoulder surgery I think.
Garza sustained his initial injury at JUCO, it was aggravated/exacerbated in fall practice.
Nick Storz is beginning to remind me of this guy: Bryce Montes De Oca
Posted on 6/11/19 at 9:26 am to Hold That Tiger 10
I don't think anyone with a brain thinks Mainieri should be fired before next season. But if we have another 2018 or 2019 next season I have no problem with Woodward helping him retire.
Posted on 6/11/19 at 9:26 am to ElOsoBlanco7
quote:
I know we won't be able to prove this until Cain leaves, but I'd like to know how much LSU recruits itself. LSU baseball has a reputation, and that makes it much easier on a recruiter. If we can get a guy who can offer a bit more as far as (hitting?) coaching goes, I'd be okay with parting ways with Cain
I totally agree that LSU recruits itself to a certain extent. The college baseball recruiting games depends on getting the best players available that will actually come to campus. Cain appears to know this game very well, and has a high success rate.
An ideal scenario would be making Cain a volunteer guy, and pay big money to a great hitting coach (who would also have to be able to be a high level recruiter). This isn't perfect though, because Cain could no longer go out and recruit. How critical is him going on the road and recruiting these guys to what he does? I really don't know.
Posted on 6/11/19 at 9:27 am to Hold That Tiger 10
quote:
What are you trying to get at?
Are we recruiting injured kids thinking they will be fine by the time the season starts?
Mainly Storz & Labas because I can’t remember what their issues even are
ETA
& if we are not recruiting them injured is there an issue evaluating them?
This post was edited on 6/11/19 at 9:29 am
Posted on 6/11/19 at 9:27 am to The Boat
quote:
I don't think anyone with a brain thinks Mainieri should be fired before next season. But if we have another 2018 or 2019 next season I have no problem with Woodward helping him retire
So then we agree.
Posted on 6/11/19 at 9:30 am to LSUJML
quote:
Are we recruiting injured kids thinking they will be fine by the time the season starts?
Mainly Storz & Labas because I can’t remember what their issues even are
Isn't that a part of the gambling done in recruiting though. How many of these guys never sniff a college campus without the injuries? Willis is another example. He is probably not at LSU without his injury. So, should we move away from anybody who is injured, because they are hurt, even if it means signing a lower quality recruit? Or do we take a chance on getting them here and healthy? I don't know that there is a correct answer to this. For some it may pay off, and for others it will turn into a bad gamble.
Posted on 6/11/19 at 9:31 am to Hold That Tiger 10
quote:
An ideal scenario would be making Cain a volunteer guy, and pay big money to a great hitting coach (who would also have to be able to be a high level recruiter). This isn't perfect though, because Cain could no longer go out and recruit. How critical is him going on the road and recruiting these guys to what he does? I really don't know.
Cain's strengths are organizing the recruiting board (I'm not trying to undersell this, it's important) and getting the right information from the right people re: draft intentions (also very important).
I know he can do the first one as part of the support staff. I don't know to what degree he could do the second one as part of the support staff, but since a lot of it is talking to HS and Summer coaches, MLB scouts, and Agents/Advisors, but he probably could do most of it.
He already did the organizational stuff when he was the volunteer.
Posted on 6/11/19 at 9:31 am to Hold That Tiger 10
quote:
Does not warrant a firing of Mainieri this year though.
Does anyone realistically expect him to get fired this year? I assume any real talk of him leaving would be based on how the team performs next year. Preseason expectations should be about as high as they were this year, and we should have much more consistent pitching.
Barring unforeseen circumstances, I expect us to be a national seed that's good enough to do some real damage in Omaha.
Posted on 6/11/19 at 9:33 am to ProjectP2294
Cain's strength is recruiting. But recruiters are a dime a dozen for something like LSU baseball.
Posted on 6/11/19 at 9:34 am to whitefoot
quote:
Does anyone realistically expect him to get fired this year?
Yes. If you have been reading this board, there are absolutely people who think this.
quote:
Preseason expectations should be about as high as they were this year, and we should have much more consistent pitching.
I think so as well.
quote:
Barring unforeseen circumstances, I expect us to be a national seed that's good enough to do some real damage in Omaha
So you think this, but also think Mainieri is done? The two don't go together.
Posted on 6/11/19 at 9:38 am to The Boat
quote:
Cain's strength is recruiting. But recruiters are a dime a dozen for something like LSU baseball
This is probably a very valid point. I do think Cain is a great recruiter. Having him in a paid spot is costing us in other areas. I don't know how involved Mainieri is in recruiting, but by him saying he never saw Garza would suggest he isn't as involved as he should be. That's a problem in my opinion. He should be heavily involved in recruiting. If he doesn't want to be, then maybe it is time he looks in the mirror and realizes he isn't willing to get it done anymore.
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