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re: Is it fair to say that in 2019, NOBODY has figured out how to defend modern offenses?Posted by theliontamer on 11/12/19 at 9:06 am to ShortyRob
I think you're right. But I think it goes a little further than that too. Teams don't have the players to stop that type of offense. If you are really good at defending the pass, then you are probably kinda weak defending the run. And there are still a lot of teams that are run heavy, so pick your poison.
Now, ya need 3 or 4 great cover corners who can tackle. But if you're a really good cover corner then you probably don't want to be 3rd string slot guy on your college team. The OLB/DE combo guy was the key player for a long time, now i think we will see a shift to the CB/Safety combo. Look at Kelvin Joseph. He would have been perfect for these games we are playing. But, he went to Kentucky so he can be a starter and improve his draft stock.
Now, ya need 3 or 4 great cover corners who can tackle. But if you're a really good cover corner then you probably don't want to be 3rd string slot guy on your college team. The OLB/DE combo guy was the key player for a long time, now i think we will see a shift to the CB/Safety combo. Look at Kelvin Joseph. He would have been perfect for these games we are playing. But, he went to Kentucky so he can be a starter and improve his draft stock.
re: Is it fair to say that in 2019, NOBODY has figured out how to defend modern offenses?Posted by KingDaddyRabbit on 11/12/19 at 9:12 am to ShortyRob
The best way to counter an amazing spread offense like LSU with a Joe Burrow and with excellent playmakers is to also have a similarly amazing spread offense like LSU with an amazing QB similar to Joe Burrow and with excellent playmakers. As defenses, today can only slow down offenses as the one LSU has.
quote:
It's like today, "good defense" is defined as "gets a couple critical stops" and can prevent the other team from just grinding clock at the end.
Exactly. Making an occasional stop (usually by getting pressure/well timed sacks to put behind the chains) and then having the DL to stop the other teams run game from grinding a clock at the end of the game to give your offense a chance.
If you can't get pressure with the DL it's just going to be an offensive shootout
re: Is it fair to say that in 2019, NOBODY has figured out how to defend modern offenses?Posted by SammyTiger on 11/12/19 at 9:38 am to ShortyRob
It’s harder to disguise coverages because of the spread formations and motion
Team basically now have plays that take advantage of every coverage you put out there.
And we’re seeing the teams that used to have the talent to run pro style offenses realize they’re even better running spread offenses
Team basically now have plays that take advantage of every coverage you put out there.
And we’re seeing the teams that used to have the talent to run pro style offenses realize they’re even better running spread offenses
quote:
The only time people succeed is when they have two dudes in the middle who are completely unblockable which isn't exactly scheme.
Correct. You have to have a defensive line that completely dominates.
Concrete example - this is why AU beat Oregon in the National Championship a few years back IMO
Without dominant defensive line play they didn't stand much of a chance on defense in that game
re: Is it fair to say that in 2019, NOBODY has figured out how to defend modern offenses?Posted by nola000 on 11/12/19 at 9:44 am to SammyTiger
quote:
And we’re seeing the teams that used to have the talent to run pro style offenses realize they’re even better running spread offenses
What some of us have been trying to tell the les miles supporters for years now.
Yes, I'm still sore. What a waste of talent.
re: Is it fair to say that in 2019, NOBODY has figured out how to defend modern offenses?Posted by Chimlim on 11/12/19 at 9:46 am to FreddieMac
quote:
The only way to defend it is with getting to the QB before he can complete the pass.
This. Pass rush is the only way to defend it.
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re: Is it fair to say that in 2019, NOBODY has figured out how to defend modern offenses?Posted by Mulat on 11/12/19 at 9:47 am to Paul Allen
quote:
r will the defensive 9-6 type games come back or are they gone for good? They say sports can be cyclical, but I don’t think defense will be in style for at least 5 or so years.
You will know when they begin to modify rules in favor of Defense, as currently they favor strongly Offense, as they have done grossly in that direction but it is a safer game for it
This post was edited on 11/12 at 9:49 am
re: Is it fair to say that in 2019, NOBODY has figured out how to defend modern offenses?Posted by LordoftheManor on 11/12/19 at 9:47 am to ShortyRob
Have a d-line like Clemsons last year
This post was edited on 11/12 at 9:48 am
You have to combo coverages, hopefully confuse college QBs, force them to execute all the way down the field, and/or sometimes take chances.
Aranda seems to choose to force them to execute down the field. That does give up some long drives (Bama 2nd half, UF most of the game, etc). However, it gives you a better probability of getting a stop on 3rd down. (However, LSU's offense is usually so far ahead that the defense has to defend an unusual amount of 4th downs... which is very hard.)
As you know, the spread is designed to give a numbers advantage in the run game. But, if the read defender commits to stopping the 2-5 yard run, they'll RPO it to complete the 8-15 yard pass. It's designed to take what the defense gives you, but you have to complete the pass or risk being put behind the sticks. What are you going to do with a QB that completes 80% and WRs that are pro ready?
You can play games with the QB like Queen did on the interception. Disguise your coverage and/or gamble and slide into a different zone, but you can't do it on every play or you'll get burned. However, the goal is usually just to create enough stops or turnovers to win.
Go man to man on the outside and use a numbers advantage to stop most of the productivity between the hashes. This does force the throw to the outside in 1:1 coverage, but you have to hope that it is incomplete or that your DB can get a PBU or tackle. You'll give up the occasional big play, but you'll also have enough misses to get some punts as well.
Essentially, the defense is trying to force low percentage plays and hope for punts.... or they can start to gamble and sag coverages hoping to capitalize on a mistake.
But it's really hard against good QBs and skill players. LSU is showing just how damn hard it is.
Bama tried its best to stop most of the downfield passing plays and quick slants. Saban was going to put it into CEH's hands and hope they could make enough tackles to win the game. But that damn spin move and that massive Secretariat heart wasn't gonna let that happen.
Aranda seems to choose to force them to execute down the field. That does give up some long drives (Bama 2nd half, UF most of the game, etc). However, it gives you a better probability of getting a stop on 3rd down. (However, LSU's offense is usually so far ahead that the defense has to defend an unusual amount of 4th downs... which is very hard.)
As you know, the spread is designed to give a numbers advantage in the run game. But, if the read defender commits to stopping the 2-5 yard run, they'll RPO it to complete the 8-15 yard pass. It's designed to take what the defense gives you, but you have to complete the pass or risk being put behind the sticks. What are you going to do with a QB that completes 80% and WRs that are pro ready?
You can play games with the QB like Queen did on the interception. Disguise your coverage and/or gamble and slide into a different zone, but you can't do it on every play or you'll get burned. However, the goal is usually just to create enough stops or turnovers to win.
Go man to man on the outside and use a numbers advantage to stop most of the productivity between the hashes. This does force the throw to the outside in 1:1 coverage, but you have to hope that it is incomplete or that your DB can get a PBU or tackle. You'll give up the occasional big play, but you'll also have enough misses to get some punts as well.
Essentially, the defense is trying to force low percentage plays and hope for punts.... or they can start to gamble and sag coverages hoping to capitalize on a mistake.
But it's really hard against good QBs and skill players. LSU is showing just how damn hard it is.
Bama tried its best to stop most of the downfield passing plays and quick slants. Saban was going to put it into CEH's hands and hope they could make enough tackles to win the game. But that damn spin move and that massive Secretariat heart wasn't gonna let that happen.
re: Is it fair to say that in 2019, NOBODY has figured out how to defend modern offenses?Posted by Azkiger on 11/12/19 at 9:51 am to PhillyFan1994
This.
Downvote all you want but I had more fun watching the 41-46 game than I did the 6-9 game.
Downvote all you want but I had more fun watching the 41-46 game than I did the 6-9 game.
re: Is it fair to say that in 2019, NOBODY has figured out how to defend modern offenses?Posted by TigerFan55555 on 11/12/19 at 9:54 am to ShortyRob
quote:
I think the only way defense becomes a thing again is for the rules pendulum to swing back.
Yup.
Till then. All about the dline
re: Is it fair to say that in 2019, NOBODY has figured out how to defend modern offenses?Posted by Tigers eyes on 11/12/19 at 9:56 am to ShortyRob
quote:
NOBODY has figured out how to defend modern offenses?
Not true. LSU held Texas in the first half as well as bama in the first half. But you need to have the players to do it and the depth on defense. LSU has some of the players just not enough cover corners and not enough quality depth in their front 7. Just wait until Ed gets another 2 recruiting classes at LSU and you will see LSU shut everybody down for 4 quarters while scoring at will. Bama score 1 offensive TD in the first half, it wasn't until LSU's defense wore down in the 4th quarter that bama started scoring. DB's get a little leg weary chasing receivers for 4 quarters. LSU just didn't have enough of them. But they will bring them in. Flott has really been playing good. Cam Lewis played well he was just a step behind on some plays, he will get better and make up that step. Sting played a good game, but there were a few plays he showed that he is a true freshman. To stop this offense you must cover the receivers at least 3 seconds and have a front 7 that can get to the QB in less that 3 seconds. And the depth to do this for 4 quarters. That's a whole lot of running rushing the QB almost every down and covering receivers every down. Just wears guys down.
re: Is it fair to say that in 2019, NOBODY has figured out how to defend modern offenses?Posted by lsupride87 on 11/12/19 at 9:57 am to Will2nd
The only thing that will stop modern offenses if they change the lineman 3 yards past the LOS rule
It is just impossible for Linebackers to play against these offenses with that rule
It is just impossible for Linebackers to play against these offenses with that rule
re: Is it fair to say that in 2019, NOBODY has figured out how to defend modern offenses?Posted by ShortyRob on 11/12/19 at 10:25 am to Tigers eyes
quote:Yeah. Well, guess what. That's why they play the whole game.
Not true. LSU held Texas in the first half as well as bama in the first half.
The point is, no one in the country is doing it consistently at all.
But yes. If you can recruit a stellar DL, that's really the only "scheme" you can do do deal with it. Which, well, isn't really "scheme".
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