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Goldrush25
Washington Fan
San Diego, CA
Member since Oct 2012
14978 posts

re: If LSU beats Notre Dame, O will be 32-32 as a head coach
quote:

He was...who was a better coach in cfb during those 3 years to you?


So you're telling me that Larry Coker was the best coach in college football for 3 years, suddenly forgets how to coach, the team gets worse every year he's there and falls to 7-6 before he's canned?

Or perhaps he was a figurehead that was handed the best roster in college football history and rode it until the wheels fell off and he had no expertise to change the course of those events.

Even his own players said he did nothing but stay out of the way. That's not being a good coach.
This post was edited on 12/7 at 10:45 am


Topwater Trout
LSU Fan
Red Stick
Member since Oct 2010
55081 posts

re: If LSU beats Notre Dame, O will be 32-32 as a head coach
quote:

So you're telling me that Larry Coker was the best coach in college football for 3 years,


how else is a coach judged? I don't typically see coaches with say a .500 record listed as the best coach in the country...do you?

quote:

perhaps he was a figurehead that was handed the best roster in college football history and rode it until the wheels fell off


the best figurehead for those 3 years lol

quote:

That's not being a good coach.



wouldn't a bad coach have fricked it up?


H-Town Tiger
Houston Astros Fan
Member since Nov 2003
46301 posts

re: If LSU beats Notre Dame, O will be 32-32 as a head coach
quote:

1. Who was your choice to replace Miles...and did they have a better season than Orgeron?


I had several some had better records others did not but This gets to the heart of the disconnect right here. 1 season doesn’t prove anything. Now by saying that you and other CheeriOs will just say I’m refusing to give O any credit. But i will point out the the coach that had the best first season of any LSU coach since the end of WWII is Mike Archer, how did that work out?

quote:

. Did this team improve in every phase of the game from game one to 12...penalties, offensive line, dline, etc?


Every phase? No. The passing game did not improve. The running game really didn’t “improve” Special teams didn’t really improve. The lines did get healthy and played better and the team looked better later in the season but that’s in part because they looked so bad 5 games in.


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Space Cowboy
Member since Oct 2016
2914 posts

re: If LSU beats Notre Dame, O will be 32-32 as a head coach
quote:

False


Wow, I thought that Jimbo resigned before the NLU game.


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H-Town Tiger
Houston Astros Fan
Member since Nov 2003
46301 posts

re: If LSU beats Notre Dame, O will be 32-32 as a head coach
quote:

how else is a coach judged? I don't typically see coaches with say a .500 record listed as the best coach in the country...do you?


It is incredibly lazy to look solely at the record and also how we judge things after the fact when we have a more complete picture can and often does change over time.


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Goldrush25
Washington Fan
San Diego, CA
Member since Oct 2012
14978 posts

re: If LSU beats Notre Dame, O will be 32-32 as a head coach
quote:

how else is a coach judged? I don't typically see coaches with say a .500 record listed as the best coach in the country...do you?


How long he can sustain a program, if they get better after a down period. A downward trajectory certainly doesn't paint the picture of a good coach.

The minute the last of Davis's recruits walked off campus that Miami program fell off. And again, his players said he didn't coach. What more evidence do you need that he was a bad coach that was dropped into a great situation?


Freauxzen
USA Fan
Utah
Member since Feb 2006
29669 posts

re: If LSU beats Notre Dame, O will be 32-32 as a head coach
quote:

Nope. Neither was CLM in his first year at LSU or Nick Saban for that matter.

But where was LSU when Saban was hired?

quote:

For his career no but based on his 2 interim stints and HC record at LSU it could be argued he is.




Ummm...

quote:

I trust him more than I trusted Miles.


And I trust neither option.

quote:

These are elite coaches in your mind?


Did I say that? They are coaching the Top 8 teams, so theoretically speaking in the future, O would most likely have to beat some combination of the two. They may not be elite, but every one of these is more accomplished, have a better resume, and are straight up better coaches.

quote:

1. Who was your choice to replace Miles...and did they have a better season than Orgeron?


There are a variety of answers to this question. Were we in rebuilding mode or could we win now? Are we looking for a 10 year plan or a 5 year. DO we want to invest in a high risk/young coach? We MAY have a dodged a bullet with Jimbo, but there are 15-20 coaches I would have looked at before even entertaining O.

"Better season" is completely subjective, and we probably have different metrics....

quote:

2. Did this team improve in every phase of the game from game one to 12...penalties, offensive line, dline, etc?


No. See above. Passing game was stagnant, as was the running games. Special Teams was bad, even after O tweaking it. The Lines look good thankfully.

quote:

3. List the areas we got worse in over the course of the year


See above.

Again, you're too focused on the year. When I look at a coach, I'm not looking at "next year," I'm looking at the next 5 years at least. This is why the O hire is perplexing. You really had to buy into the "we are prepared to win now" for it to make any sense. IF this was a rebuild, the hire still makes no sense.


Freauxzen
USA Fan
Utah
Member since Feb 2006
29669 posts

re: If LSU beats Notre Dame, O will be 32-32 as a head coach
quote:

So you're telling me that Larry Coker was the best coach in college football for 3 years, suddenly forgets how to coach, the team gets worse every year he's there and falls to 7-6 before he's canned?



This x1000


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Topwater Trout
LSU Fan
Red Stick
Member since Oct 2010
55081 posts

re: If LSU beats Notre Dame, O will be 32-32 as a head coach
quote:

A downward trajectory certainly doesn't paint the picture of a good coach.


So we can base this on a smaller scale correct? The fact O started 3-2 against lesser competition and finished 6-1 against conference competition proves he is a good coach?


cas4t
New Orleans Saints Fan
Member since Jan 2010
56694 posts

re: If LSU beats Notre Dame, O will be 32-32 as a head coach
it should be noted that 5 of the last 7 teams we faced fired their coach this season. The stars really aligned for O on that front. Hopefully it's a confidence booster, but I'm not reading too much into those games. We beat some bad teams. AU was a good win.


Topwater Trout
LSU Fan
Red Stick
Member since Oct 2010
55081 posts

re: If LSU beats Notre Dame, O will be 32-32 as a head coach
quote:

O would most likely have to beat some combination of the two. They may not be elite, but every one of these is more accomplished, have a better resume, and are straight up better coaches.



straight up? he is 1-0 vs Malzahn correct? 0-2 vs Saban...what is his record vs the other 6?

quote:

"Better season" is completely subjective, and we probably have different metrics....


9-3 at LSU is always a better season than 5-6 at FSU and 6-6 at Texas


Goldrush25
Washington Fan
San Diego, CA
Member since Oct 2012
14978 posts

re: If LSU beats Notre Dame, O will be 32-32 as a head coach
quote:

So we can base this on a smaller scale correct? The fact O started 3-2 against lesser competition and finished 6-1 against conference competition proves he is a good coach?


I don't think we can know what this season means yet. It's baffling how a team that loses to Troy could beat Auburn.

This season has demonstrated inconsistency though. And an inconsistent team is not a hallmark of a good coach. If he goes out next year and the team demonstrates a consistent effort every week, then he can re-write that narrative.

If LSU begins with another slow start, losing games they shouldn't and then they get it going later in the year, then we can start to see a pattern developing under Orgeron.
This post was edited on 12/7 at 12:49 pm


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Topwater Trout
LSU Fan
Red Stick
Member since Oct 2010
55081 posts

re: If LSU beats Notre Dame, O will be 32-32 as a head coach
quote:

it should be noted that 5 of the last 7 teams we faced fired their coach this season.


makes you wonder how many would have kept their job had they beat LSU.

Sumlin fielded good teams but his loss to UCLA and inability to beat LSU probably did him in...he was successful though.

Bielemma beat Miles a few times...at least O beat him twice.

Jones should have been fired before this year.

UF coach won 2 sec east titles in 3 years...i think

who was the 5th coach?


cas4t
New Orleans Saints Fan
Member since Jan 2010
56694 posts

re: If LSU beats Notre Dame, O will be 32-32 as a head coach
quote:

makes you wonder how many would have kept their job had they beat LSU.



I'm pretty sure none of them.
quote:

Sumlin fielded good teams but his loss to UCLA and inability to beat LSU probably did him in...he was successful though.



he was defintly gone before teh LSU game. They were done with him. Last game of the season didn't matter.

quote:

Bielemma beat Miles a few times...at least O beat him twice.



he maybe stays if he beats LSU, but I doubt it.

quote:

Jones should have been fired before this year.



no doubt Butch was gone before.

quote:

UF coach won 2 sec east titles in 3 years...i think



correct and maybe keeps his job if he beats LSU, but he lost a lot more after.

quote:

who was the 5th coach?



Ole Hugh Freeze
This post was edited on 12/7 at 12:54 pm


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H-Town Tiger
Houston Astros Fan
Member since Nov 2003
46301 posts

re: If LSU beats Notre Dame, O will be 32-32 as a head coach
quote:

So we can base this on a smaller scale correct? The fact O started 3-2 against lesser competition and finished 6-1 against conference competition proves he is a good coach?


You can’t be this obtuse A larger sample size is much more telling. Just so we’re clear 7-8 seasons tells you more than 7-8 games.

quote:

he is 1-0 vs Malzahn correct? 0-2 vs Saban...what is his record vs the other 6?


I’m pretty sure Gerry DiNardo is 1-0 vs Saban oh and Miles was 3-0 vs O.

quote:

9-3 at LSU is always a better season than 5-6 at FSU and 6-6 at Texas


It’s more wins, better depends on circumstances sometimes but that’s hard for someone that refuses to look at the big picture. But again is the goal for LSU to contend for championships or do better the Jimbo Fisher and Tom Herman.
This post was edited on 12/7 at 6:16 pm


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Freauxzen
USA Fan
Utah
Member since Feb 2006
29669 posts

re: If LSU beats Notre Dame, O will be 32-32 as a head coach
quote:

straight up? he is 1-0 vs Malzahn correct? 0-2 vs Saban...what is his record vs the other 6?



Better resumes and more proof in program building and vision expertise. Please don't tell me that you would take O over everyone but Saban and Urban in that list?

quote:

9-3 at LSU is always a better season than 5-6 at FSU and 6-6 at Texas


No it isn't. FSU you may have an argument, and I conceded that we MAY have dodged a bullet with Jimbo. That's unknown. Jimbo's resume and selected results, as you only select this season to look at O, are hands down better.

Texas was in a bad spot, 6-6 at Texas, rebuilding a program, is not bad whatsoever. Herman and Jimbo are still safer bets for long term success.


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