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re: Baseball CWS Finals appearances since 2000.
Posted on 5/5/21 at 11:05 am to geauxtigers33
Posted on 5/5/21 at 11:05 am to geauxtigers33
quote:I agree. But my point is that people seem to think that domination is impossible in baseball because "parity" but that's simply not true.
The reason is there isn’t a Saban like coach in college baseball. Saban is the greatest coach in the history of college football and is not only better than everyone else currently in his sport he is head and shoulders better than everyone else. Not saying it can’t happen but there just isn’t that guy right now and may never be.
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Posted on 5/5/21 at 11:07 am to ell_13
I don't have the time to break down your list, but I would guess that the biggest increase in "parity" is amongst P5 conferences (specifically among SEC, ACC, Big 12, Pac 12).
Scholarship limits and roster limits may have played a part, but football money played the biggest part.
While the same number of different teams has remained flat, where they're coming from has probably changed.
Which is to say, even if winning in college baseball in general now isn't any harder than it's ever been, winning in the SEC and ACC is.
Scholarship limits and roster limits may have played a part, but football money played the biggest part.
While the same number of different teams has remained flat, where they're coming from has probably changed.
Which is to say, even if winning in college baseball in general now isn't any harder than it's ever been, winning in the SEC and ACC is.
Posted on 5/5/21 at 11:08 am to geauxtigers33
quote:
Roster limitations and only allowing you to give scholarships to 28 players is what created more parity in college baseball.
yeah, the rules were the same for everyone.
so where was LSU’s advantage?
Skip was just better at it than everyone else.
Posted on 5/5/21 at 11:10 am to MOT
quote:Yet baseball may have the best system for finding the best team. There is no "every game matters" in the regular season and there's no one and done. In college baseball, especially since the post season changes, you are more likely to find the best teams in the CWS and the best team can win out. You basically have 4 rounds of double-elimination tournaments.
You shouldn’t need anyone to point out how baseball results are far more random than football.
4-team double elimination regional
2-team best of three super
4=team double elimination in CWS
2-team best of three CWS
A team could lose 4 games in the post season and still win it all. That's a lot of rope for good teams to have bad days and overcome them.
Posted on 5/5/21 at 11:10 am to ProjectP2294
quote:This I can agree with.
Which is to say, even if winning in college baseball in general now isn't any harder than it's ever been, winning in the SEC and ACC is.
Posted on 5/5/21 at 11:11 am to ProjectP2294
quote:Also, this is bullshite.
I don't have the time to break down your list
Posted on 5/5/21 at 11:12 am to ell_13
As with all of these discussions about how the game has changed and how the rules have changed, I don't see any of these as excuses. Because I don't feel like they excuse away any performance issues. But they are hurdles that should be acknowledged when assessing performance.
Posted on 5/5/21 at 11:13 am to ell_13
quote:
Also, this is bullshite.
The full sentence should have read "I don't have time to break down your list before getting distracted and forgetting the point I was going to make"
Posted on 5/5/21 at 11:18 am to ProjectP2294
quote:I don't discount new hurdles, but I don't ignore that old ones existed, too. People get the idea that Skip had it easy or at least easier. It wasn't easy what he did. He still had to get talent, beat other teams with equal or more talent, and then come through when it mattered. Those things haven't changed and they honestly aren't any harder or easier now from that perspective. Skip was special. Saban is special. I know it takes a special leader to have a dominate program. I take issue with those who blame the new hurdles for domination not existing. I team could have absolutely dominated the 00s and 10s imo. There were no more "good" teams from one era to the other.
But they are hurdles that should be acknowledged when assessing performance.
Posted on 5/5/21 at 11:20 am to ProjectP2294
quote:10-4.
"I don't have time to break down your list before getting distracted and forgetting the point I was going to make"
Some of my random observations:
- It made me sad when I saw that we had the same number of CWS appearances in the 10s as we did in the 80s
-Who knew Maine was so damn good back then?
- Clemson was sneaky consistent
- lol @ Florida State
Posted on 5/5/21 at 11:22 am to ell_13
quote:
-Who knew Maine was so damn good back then?
That was when regionals were actually regional.
They were only competing with other schools in the northeast.
quote:
- Clemson was sneaky consistent
Sully, Corbin, and Bakich were all on staff there together at one point.
This post was edited on 5/5/21 at 11:24 am
Posted on 5/5/21 at 11:24 am to ell_13
quote:You're confusing two points here and both can be true. What Skip did wasn’t easy, his accomplishments outpaced everyone else.
People get the idea that Skip had it easy or at least easier. It wasn't easy what he did.
The changes tell us it was easier to accomplish those things then than it would be today. And if you don’t want to believe everyone else, Skip himself says it.
Posted on 5/5/21 at 11:24 am to ell_13
quote:
This parity bullshite is way way overblown. I did a breakdown from the 80s, 90s, 00s, and 10s of teams that made it to the CWS.
look at just our SEC opponents
‘80s - 4 teams combined for 5 appearances
‘90s - 6 teams combined for 13 appearances
‘00s - 6 teams combined for 13 appearances
‘10s - 8 teams combined for 25 appearances
Posted on 5/5/21 at 11:27 am to Nutriaitch
quote:
look at just our SEC opponents
‘80s - 4 teams combined for 5 appearances
‘90s - 6 teams combined for 13 appearances
‘00s - 6 teams combined for 13 appearances
‘10s - 8 teams combined for 25 appearances
TV contract money has to be spent somewhere. SEC schools started with baseball. Big Ten is only now trying to catch up there.
Posted on 5/5/21 at 11:32 am to ell_13
Just for fun, a total for all 4 decades: 64 teams, 26 single appearances.
That's 320 spots available with just 38 teams taking up 294 of them...
Alabama - 4
Arizona - 6
Arizona State - 12
Arkansas - 9
Auburn - 3
Baylor - 1
California - 4
Cal State Fullerton - 16
The Citadel - 1
Clemson - 8
Coastal Carolina - 1
Creighton - 1
Florida - 12
Florida State - 17
Fresno State - 3
Georgia - 7
Georgia Southern - 1
Georgia Tech - 2
Hawaii - 1
Indiana - 1
Indiana State - 1
James Madison - 1
Kansas - 1
Kent State - 1
ULL - 1
Long Beach State - 4
Louisville - 4
LSU - 18
Loyola Marymount - 1
Maine - 5
Miami - 22
Michigan - 5
Mississippi State - 9
Nebraska - 3
New Orleans - 1
North Carolina - 8
NC State - 1
Notre Dame - 1
Oklahoma - 4
Oklahoma State - 8
Ole Miss - 1
Oregon State - 6
Pepperdine - 1
Rice - 7
San Jose State - 1
South Carolina - 8
Southern Cal - 4
Southern Miss - 1
Southwest Missouri State - 1
Stanford - 14
St. John’s - 1
Stony Brook - 1
TCU - 5
Tennessee - 3
Texas - 19
Texas A&M - 3
Tulane - 1
UCLA - 4
UC Irvine - 2
UC Santa Barbara - 1
Vanderbilt - 4
Virginia - 4
Washington - 1
Wichita State - 7
That's 320 spots available with just 38 teams taking up 294 of them...
Alabama - 4
Arizona - 6
Arizona State - 12
Arkansas - 9
Auburn - 3
Baylor - 1
California - 4
Cal State Fullerton - 16
The Citadel - 1
Clemson - 8
Coastal Carolina - 1
Creighton - 1
Florida - 12
Florida State - 17
Fresno State - 3
Georgia - 7
Georgia Southern - 1
Georgia Tech - 2
Hawaii - 1
Indiana - 1
Indiana State - 1
James Madison - 1
Kansas - 1
Kent State - 1
ULL - 1
Long Beach State - 4
Louisville - 4
LSU - 18
Loyola Marymount - 1
Maine - 5
Miami - 22
Michigan - 5
Mississippi State - 9
Nebraska - 3
New Orleans - 1
North Carolina - 8
NC State - 1
Notre Dame - 1
Oklahoma - 4
Oklahoma State - 8
Ole Miss - 1
Oregon State - 6
Pepperdine - 1
Rice - 7
San Jose State - 1
South Carolina - 8
Southern Cal - 4
Southern Miss - 1
Southwest Missouri State - 1
Stanford - 14
St. John’s - 1
Stony Brook - 1
TCU - 5
Tennessee - 3
Texas - 19
Texas A&M - 3
Tulane - 1
UCLA - 4
UC Irvine - 2
UC Santa Barbara - 1
Vanderbilt - 4
Virginia - 4
Washington - 1
Wichita State - 7
This post was edited on 5/5/21 at 12:03 pm
Posted on 5/5/21 at 11:35 am to ProjectP2294
quote:
As with all of these discussions about how the game has changed and how the rules have changed, I don't see any of these as excuses. Because I don't feel like they excuse away any performance issues. But they are hurdles that should be acknowledged when assessing performance.
No doubt. If we’re talking LSU performance specifically, the program should be at a certain level relative to the competition and current landscape, not relative to results in a different era.
Posted on 5/5/21 at 11:36 am to Dwainwright
Why are you trying to give excuses for Pawl?
Posted on 5/5/21 at 11:38 am to MOT
I'm saying that while the challenges are different, they are not insurmountable to the point that a dominant team could not exist. In fact, I believe that with no single team showing consistency, the field was ripe for a dominant team to exist had a coach existed who could overcome the changing challenges. If that current team is Vandy, I would actually concede that nearly all other teams are at a disadvantage due to what that school can provide over others and even minor leagues.
Posted on 5/5/21 at 11:42 am to ell_13
I think if we spent the time fleshing out the various hurdles different programs face, we may find that there are coaches vastly under performing their resources/advantages/etc. Florida and Vandy come to mind.
ETA: Which leads into a conversation about efficiency. LSU baseball and LSU football can operate at different efficiencies and experience the same success. Florida baseball has the recruiting advantages LSU football has. LSU baseball is more like Tennessee football (really more like Notre Dame, but still). We have to be successful out of state to be successful on the field.
ETA: Which leads into a conversation about efficiency. LSU baseball and LSU football can operate at different efficiencies and experience the same success. Florida baseball has the recruiting advantages LSU football has. LSU baseball is more like Tennessee football (really more like Notre Dame, but still). We have to be successful out of state to be successful on the field.
This post was edited on 5/5/21 at 11:46 am
Posted on 5/5/21 at 11:51 am to ell_13
Maybe several coaches were able to successfully overcome the new challenges.
I think the door is open now with the transfer portal being added to the mix for recruiting. Roster management is going to be huge. LSU has completely whiffed on roster management recently. I believe development has been an issue here, but I also think that we have had guys on the roster that shouldn't be and didn't sniff some guys that we should have.
I think the door is open now with the transfer portal being added to the mix for recruiting. Roster management is going to be huge. LSU has completely whiffed on roster management recently. I believe development has been an issue here, but I also think that we have had guys on the roster that shouldn't be and didn't sniff some guys that we should have.
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