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Message
re: Any Alex Box workers/architects in the know
Posted on 12/16/08 at 9:34 am to mikethetiger
Posted on 12/16/08 at 9:34 am to mikethetiger
as with all large jobs, if the contractor wanted to change something he would first have to get the architects ok. the architect would need to get the owners approval and then the contractor needs to have the structual engineer approve the change.
Posted on 12/16/08 at 10:18 am to LSUPEPPER
quote:
if the contractor wanted to change something he would first have to get the architects ok. the architect would need to get the owners approval and then the contractor needs to have the structual engineer approve the change.
This is true...No change of this type could not be made without the owner's approval....This change could have actually been made after the rendering but before the bids.
Also, I agree with Helicopter...This is likely a structural element due to the fact they used an unusually large, heavy I-beam instead of a more aesthetic thin-walled decorative I-beam or box beam. Maybe a lighweight decorative, non supportive element will be applied to the exterior later. It would match the rendering and would mask any sight of the interior I-beam from outside view..
Posted on 12/16/08 at 10:20 am to LSUPEPPER
I agree with that chain of command. Still doesn't answer why the contractor (if that is the case) made the change.
Hopefully someone who is familiar with the project will read this thread after work and comment.
Hopefully someone who is familiar with the project will read this thread after work and comment.
Posted on 12/16/08 at 10:34 am to mikethetiger
As a licensed Architect in Louisiana but not involved in the design or construction of the Box I can only offer these opinions:
1. The renderings you see are done fairly early in the design process and details often will change because of issues such as cost, code compliance, limitations of the materials or just simply best practices.
2. The owner (LSU) wanted a design change.
3. The project Architect didn't like the original design.
4. The storefront systems (windows)are required by the IBC 2006 building code to be "large missile impact resistant". Which means the testing agency shoots a 2x4 at the window unit and the window unit must remain intact. In order for that window to meet the code requirements it has to be installed in the same manner in which is was tested. It's possible that the building inspector or window manufacturer noted that the storefront was not tested as originally designed. By putting the steel beam behind the storefront it is no longer an element in the storefront installation and will be in code compliance.
5. Or it could be something else.
1. The renderings you see are done fairly early in the design process and details often will change because of issues such as cost, code compliance, limitations of the materials or just simply best practices.
2. The owner (LSU) wanted a design change.
3. The project Architect didn't like the original design.
4. The storefront systems (windows)are required by the IBC 2006 building code to be "large missile impact resistant". Which means the testing agency shoots a 2x4 at the window unit and the window unit must remain intact. In order for that window to meet the code requirements it has to be installed in the same manner in which is was tested. It's possible that the building inspector or window manufacturer noted that the storefront was not tested as originally designed. By putting the steel beam behind the storefront it is no longer an element in the storefront installation and will be in code compliance.
5. Or it could be something else.
Posted on 12/16/08 at 10:40 am to mikethetiger
quote:
mikethetiger
Dude, you are trying to discuss Brain Surgery in Romper Room. You do realize that most of the people on this board are guys wondering how to clear up their zits before Saturday night? Give it up. Intelligent conversations are not an option.
Move along son, nothing to see here.
Posted on 12/16/08 at 11:02 am to BBATiger
quote:
You do realize that most of the people on this board are guys wondering how to clear up their zits before Saturday night?
I think the architect posting about the missile resistant windows is the best you are going to do.
Posted on 12/16/08 at 11:23 am to TigerArkitek
quote:
4. The storefront systems (windows)are required by the IBC 2006 building code to be "large missile impact resistant". Which means the testing agency shoots a 2x4 at the window unit and the window unit must remain intact. In order for that window to meet the code requirements it has to be installed in the same manner in which is was tested. It's possible that the building inspector or window manufacturer noted that the storefront was not tested as originally designed. By putting the steel beam behind the storefront it is no longer an element in the storefront installation and will be in code compliance.
This seems as good an explanation as I've heard. The only thing that is kind of puzzling for me is IF the beam is structural, wouldn't it have to be fire-coated (like the other beams it is attached to) since it's in the interior of the structure? If it does have to be fire-coated (which it is not) then maybe it's not a structural beam after all?
Posted on 12/16/08 at 11:25 am to BBATiger
quote:
Dude, you are trying to discuss Brain Surgery in Romper Room. You do realize that most of the people on this board are guys wondering how to clear up their zits before Saturday night? Give it up. Intelligent conversations are not an option.
Move along son, nothing to see here.
I figured it could be a lost cause when I posted, but I had a little bit of hope someone would have an educated answer and Arkitek (and a couple of others) have given very reasonable answers. All is not lost in the Rant world.
Posted on 12/16/08 at 11:31 am to TigerattheU
quote:
I think the architect posting about the missile resistant windows is the best you are going to do.
Yeah, you are probably right. But, I am holding out a little hope that someone who is working on the project will post the definitive answer sometime today.
Posted on 12/16/08 at 11:33 am to TigerArkitek
quote:
"large missile impact resistant".
Glad you explained what this was ! I was beginning to question my safety at the new box ! :lol
Bet the Irvine AD wishes he had some "missle Resistant" glass on his car.
Posted on 12/16/08 at 12:26 pm to LSUTygerFan
quote:
, but based on my experience and observation over the years, the way the structure was built, thus not boxed-in to hide the fire protection, I deduce that it wasn't really a structual component. Either way, the main question is why is it not showing to the outside world (as rendered).
Sounds like a good overview of the female bodies in the second pic, not some silly beam design/placement.
Posted on 12/16/08 at 12:31 pm to mikethetiger
quote:
IF the beam is structural, wouldn't it have to be fire-coated (like the other beams it is attached to) since it's in the interior of the structure?
It doesn't make a difference if the steel is interior or exterior, the beam would have to have a sprayed fire insulation. But it doesn't have to be the sprayed insulation that you are used to.
It could be an intumescent coating which looks just like paint but expands like spray foam insulation when exposed to heat. But since intumescent coatings are very expen$ive it's unlikely. The beams, on the other hand may be simply aesthetic or they could be to reduce the unsupported length of the beams and may not need to have be protected.
Posted on 12/16/08 at 12:34 pm to LSUTygerFan
Actually this would pass the "large missile impact" test. Although the glass is broken, the windshield remained intact and the ball did not fully penetrate the glass.
The shattered glass performed exactly as it should have.
The shattered glass performed exactly as it should have.
Posted on 12/17/08 at 7:04 pm to mikethetiger
I'll give you a hint.
Look very closely at the windows in the rendering and then look at the construction photo. Do you see a difference in the frames?
Also, those are structural beams and not all sturctural members require spray applied fireproofing.
Look very closely at the windows in the rendering and then look at the construction photo. Do you see a difference in the frames?
Also, those are structural beams and not all sturctural members require spray applied fireproofing.
Posted on 12/17/08 at 8:21 pm to LSU99
I must be missing something. Is there going to be a decorative/non structural beam installed over the glass? It's hard to tell from that distance.
Posted on 12/17/08 at 8:25 pm to mikethetiger
The rendering shows structural glazing and the actual installed is standard storefront. It was changed.
The horizontals are required for bracing, they could not come out.
The horizontals are required for bracing, they could not come out.
Posted on 12/17/08 at 9:47 pm to mikethetiger
Noone really knows why they were changed other than the architect's and engineer's offices and a handful of people at LSU. That decision was made before the structure went up and final prints were distributed. The signage under the top windows weren't taken out of the project all together, i believe they were moved to surrounding the main entrance behind home plate. I'm not on the structural crew but I am on the job every day and talk to many of the different trades. There has been tons of changes in this job, some because of engineering mistakes but mostly because the LSU representatives didn't like the concept drawings...and then there is the whole "just because it works on paper doesn't mean it works in the real world" issues. If you want a better answer I would suggest calling the general contractors office.
Posted on 12/18/08 at 10:51 pm to Krypto
What part of the stadium are you working on?
Posted on 12/18/08 at 11:06 pm to LSU99
quote:
The rendering shows structural glazing and the actual installed is standard storefront. It was changed.
that's evident by the added mullions in the construction photos and lack thereof in the renderings
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