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SlowFlowPro
Stanford Fan
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
365402 posts

re: Is Aranda’s scheme hurting us on dline recruiting?
quote:

You know Bama runs a 3-4 right?

yeah but they've evolved into a more modern 3-4 where the DL get pressure and don't just occupy. it seems Aranda wants much more occupying by the DL. guys like Q Williams and J Allen wouldn't produce here like they did at Bama

*ETA: they're not trotting out these types of guys much anymore



This post was edited on 6/11 at 11:23 am


dstone12
East Carolina Fan
Member since Jan 2007
7347 posts

re: Is Aranda’s scheme hurting us on dline recruiting?
quote:

From 2016 - 2019, Bama has signed six 5* linemen. LSU signed one, back in 2016. Bama has signed two 3* linemen. LSU has signed seventeen. Bama has signed 28 4* linemen. LSU has signed 19. The first two stats are the most glaring. Bama is stocking their offensive and defensive lines with premiere talent and LSU simply isn't. That is evident on the field.



This.

It’s also about depth. There will be injuries. You will need more than a three deep at NT in such games as bama, Florida and auburn.

We have ika and shelvin as two guys that are well over 335 pounds. You need two more guys to not only spell these big men in these big games, but be there all season long when/if one goes down.

Additionally, the 3rd and 4th teamers at Alabama get reps in games against group of five teams and Arkansas.

When the 5 stars graduate, the 3rd and 4th teamers now have had reps and are more ready.

Quinnen came out of nowhere.


Damone
Colorado State Fan
FoCo
Member since Aug 2016
16883 posts

re: Is Aranda’s scheme hurting us on dline recruiting?
quote:

yeah but they've evolved into a more modern 3-4 where the DL get pressure and don't just occupy. it seems Aranda wants much more occupying by the DL. guys like Q Williams and J Allen wouldn't produce here like they did at Bama

*ETA: they're not trotting out these types of guys much anymore

You can tell by looking at their recruiting signings over the past few years. In the time period I mentioned in my prior post (2016-2019) Bama has signed 14 DE and 9 DT, while LSU is almost the exact opposite with 9 DE and 13 DT.


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Damone
Colorado State Fan
FoCo
Member since Aug 2016
16883 posts

re: Is Aranda’s scheme hurting us on dline recruiting?
quote:

Quinnen came out of nowhere.

That's the thing, Bama isn't relying on its three star players to come in and wreck shop. They're for depth due to the sheer amount of premiere talent they sign, but if a three star shows out, even better.


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19
LSU Fan
Flux Capacitor, Fluxing
Member since Nov 2007
16031 posts

re: Is Aranda’s scheme hurting us on dline recruiting?
quote:

unless you are a keke Mingo/k’lavon Chaisson type


You need not apply.


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thunderbird1100
LSU Fan
GSU Eagles fan
Member since Oct 2007
56430 posts

re: Is Aranda’s scheme hurting us on dline recruiting?
quote:

yeah but they've evolved into a more modern 3-4 where the DL get pressure and don't just occupy. it seems Aranda wants much more occupying by the DL. guys like Q Williams and J Allen wouldn't produce here like they did at Bama



I think they just have much better players, it's not like guys like Lawrence never get into the backfield to make plays here - 10.5 TFL 4.0 sacks last season, it's just that they're not nearly as athletic. They've got beast after beast over there, but they do have a bit smaller line up front than we do. Williams was a pretty small NT, about 290-295 playing weight at 6'3.

Lawrence at DE balloned up to what looked about 320-325 this year, at times it slowed him down for sure. Wish he would get down to about 300.
This post was edited on 6/11 at 12:00 pm


SlowFlowPro
Stanford Fan
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
365402 posts

re: Is Aranda’s scheme hurting us on dline recruiting?
quote:

it's not like guys like Lawrence never get into the backfield to make plays here

yeah but these days, their NOSE TACKLES are penetrating and getting into the backfield

we're recruiting 340+ Lb NTs

they're much more 1-gap/penetration from the DL and we're running the old school 2-gap/occupying DL. it's a legit philosophy difference

our ILBs and edge LBs need to be elite for that scheme to produce the same as Bama. i'm not shitting on Aranda, just saying that his scheme 100% hurts the production of DL talent (and the NFL is moving away from that scheme so it's going to hurt our guys' draft positions)


whitefoot
LSU Fan
Franklin, TN
Member since Aug 2006
6362 posts

re: Is Aranda’s scheme hurting us on dline recruiting?
quote:

yeah but these days, their NOSE TACKLES are penetrating and getting into the backfield


I think Ika and Shelvin will start to change that narrative. Hopefully.


SlowFlowPro
Stanford Fan
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
365402 posts

re: Is Aranda’s scheme hurting us on dline recruiting?
two huge arse classic NTs? way too optimistic. both seem like pure space occupiers. Bama's NTs are closer to 300 lbs and explosive


Hamma1122
Member since Sep 2016
6420 posts

re: Is Aranda’s scheme hurting us on dline recruiting?
Nah


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Rosenblatt
LSU Fan
Member since Apr 2019
500 posts

re: Is Aranda’s scheme hurting us on dline recruiting?
If only we had a guy who specializes in defensive line coaching and recruiting on the staff....


Rjlebla
Houston Astros Fan
Texas
Member since Jan 2014
12963 posts

re: Is Aranda’s scheme hurting us on dline recruiting?
If anyone wants to say that our scheme only allows our linemen to eat up blocks, all they have to do is rewatch last year’s bowl game and see a healthy, hungry Rashard Lawrence play like a first rounder. Case closed.


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SammyTiger
LSU Fan
New Orleans, LA
Member since Feb 2009
33815 posts

re: Is Aranda’s scheme hurting us on dline recruiting?
Payne and Robinson played around 320 at NT.

Quinnin is an exception not the rule.


SlowFlowPro
Stanford Fan
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
365402 posts

re: Is Aranda’s scheme hurting us on dline recruiting?
quote:

Quinnin is an exception not the rule.

Jonathan Allen says hi

and Bama rolls out different looks b/c they run a versatile scheme. Aranda's DL is more set in the traditional 3-4

and i will say this again, Aranda's scheme is fine, but it's going to hurt us in DL recruiting. they have to get SUPER elite LBs (especially edge guys) to make up for this


thunderbird1100
LSU Fan
GSU Eagles fan
Member since Oct 2007
56430 posts

re: Is Aranda’s scheme hurting us on dline recruiting?
quote:

yeah but these days, their NOSE TACKLES are penetrating and getting into the backfield



Because they are much smaller, they are getting Shelvin and Ika to cut a bunch of weight, it's not like we want them at 360, that's just where Shelvin was at last year. They want both Ika and Shelvin in that 320-330 range for NT.


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SammyTiger
LSU Fan
New Orleans, LA
Member since Feb 2009
33815 posts

re: Is Aranda’s scheme hurting us on dline recruiting?
Our NT in 2016 and 2017 was Gilmore who wasn’t 340 pounds

He just wasn’t as good as

They have better talent whether their NT is 305 or 325

And Again Alabama as recently as 2017 was playing a 320 NT.

Allen was a DE BTW

Aranda’s scheme has been based around the players we’ve been able to get. We haven’t recruited a 5 star DL since Lawrence.
This post was edited on 6/12 at 8:52 am


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Will2nd
LSU Fan
Atlanta
Member since Sep 2009
3111 posts

re: Is Aranda’s scheme hurting us on dline recruiting?
quote:

yeah but they've evolved into a more modern 3-4 where the DL get pressure and don't just occupy. it seems Aranda wants much more occupying by the DL. guys like Q Williams and J Allen wouldn't produce here like they did at Bama


I believe Williams and Allen would have produced here in this scheme. If you look at Logan and Lawrence they have more tackles as Juniors and Sophomores as Allen had as a senior which means the opportunities are there.

Alabama (1st round picks)
Jonathan Allen (senior year) - went from 36 tackles to 69 tackles; from 14.5 TFLs to 16; and decreased from 12 sacks from 10.5.

Quinnen Williams (junior) - went from 20 tackles to 71 tackles; from 6.5 TFLs to 19.5; and from 2.0 sacks to 8 sacks.

Clemson (all 1st round picks)
Dexter Lawrence (Junior) - 36 tackles; 7 TFLs; 1.5 sacks

Christian Wilkins (Senior) - 51 tackles; 14 TFLs; 5.5 sacks

Clelin Ferrell (Junior) - 55 tackles; 20 TFLs; 11.5 sacks


LSU
Glen Logan (Freshman) - 17 tackles; 1 TFL; 0.5 sacks
Glen Logan (Soph year) - 45 tackles; 5 TFLs; and 4 sacks

Rashard Lawrence (Soph) - 32 tackles; 3.5 TFLs; 1.5 sacks
Rashard Lawrence (Junior) - 54 tackles; 10 TFLs; 4 sacks

So no, it's not scheme. With this group, there has been progression as seen above. The production they've had to point disproves the notion that they can't make plays in this scheme.

LSU's starting defensive ends are poised to have a really good year. This coming season could turn the d-line perception around if they improve their overall individual play within the unit.

It's going to come down to desire for Logan and Lawrence. They must raise their level of play if they want to be regarded as 1st round picks. This is a money year for both. IMO, the magic numbers are 55+ tackles; 13+ TFLs, and at least 8 sacks.

I didn't include Fehoko because statistically, in part due to injury, because neither the numbers nor time in the system are there to support any type of meaningful progression. But it doesn't mean it can't happen for him.



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The Creaux
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Jun 2006
922 posts

re: Is Aranda’s scheme hurting us on dline recruiting?
Our head coach coaches the d-line. End of story.


thunderbird1100
LSU Fan
GSU Eagles fan
Member since Oct 2007
56430 posts

re: Is Aranda’s scheme hurting us on dline recruiting?
quote:

Our head coach coaches the d-line. End of story.



No he doesn't, Meatball does.

Amazing people think O spends all his time just coaching and recruiting Dlinemen still, he doesn't. That's not how any practices go.


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whitefoot
LSU Fan
Franklin, TN
Member since Aug 2006
6362 posts

re: Is Aranda’s scheme hurting us on dline recruiting?
quote:

way too optimistic

Definitely optimistic. I guess we'll see if I'm being overly optimistic this fall. Both of those guys are quick and have good get off. In the spring game, Ika looked like he has the potential to be very disruptive in the opponent's backfield.

Do the people who say the issue is scheme think that the coaches tell the linemen, "whatever you do, don't get any penetration"?

I just really don't get how the issue would be scheme. Aranda rarely sends more than 4 rushers and almost always rushes the down linemen. Why would he not want 50-75% of his rush to not make the play? It's a 3-4, so by nature, the linebackers are going to make a lot of plays, but Alabama runs a 3-4 too. Nobody complains that their scheme doesn't allow linemen to make plays. Their linebackers put up really good numbers too, you know.


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