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Removing a section of a load-bearing wall to open it up
Posted by TDsngumbo on 12/17/19 at 10:06 am06
I am renovating my mancave soon and want to open a 12-foot section of a 20 foot load-bearing wall. The mancave was built inside an old garage that was converted to the mancave years ago. The wall I want to open up is an exterior wall that has an enclosed porch behind it.
There is no attic and the roof rafters are the only thing attached to this wall - no joists.
I'll try to post a drawing of it later for better reference.
What is the best way to support the roof while I remove the section of the wall and install the support beam? I'm at a loss since the rafters I need to temporarily support go up at an angle so there's no flat joist or anything to place my temporary support wall on. Do I just build it to attach to the angled rafters?
The problem I have is this:
In most circumstances, I'd just find the attic joists above the ceiling, then run a top plate perpendicular to those joists under the ceiling with studs going down to the floor with a bottom plate to support the roof while I install the support beam. Install beam properly, then remove the temporary wall, allowing the roof to be supported, in part, by the newly installed beam.
However...
In this scenario, there is no "ceiling" and no joists to run a top plate perpendicular to in order to install a temporary support wall. Instead, there are only the roof rafters going upward, extending from the top of the wall in question to the top center of the roof. How do I install a temporary support wall to the angled rafters since there's no flat surface (such as a ceiling with joists above it)?
I'm opening the enclosed porch up to the rest of the converted garage. This wall in question used to be an exterior wall so it is a load-bearing wall. The middle half of the wall will be opened up.
There is no attic and the roof rafters are the only thing attached to this wall - no joists.
I'll try to post a drawing of it later for better reference.
What is the best way to support the roof while I remove the section of the wall and install the support beam? I'm at a loss since the rafters I need to temporarily support go up at an angle so there's no flat joist or anything to place my temporary support wall on. Do I just build it to attach to the angled rafters?
The problem I have is this:
In most circumstances, I'd just find the attic joists above the ceiling, then run a top plate perpendicular to those joists under the ceiling with studs going down to the floor with a bottom plate to support the roof while I install the support beam. Install beam properly, then remove the temporary wall, allowing the roof to be supported, in part, by the newly installed beam.
However...
In this scenario, there is no "ceiling" and no joists to run a top plate perpendicular to in order to install a temporary support wall. Instead, there are only the roof rafters going upward, extending from the top of the wall in question to the top center of the roof. How do I install a temporary support wall to the angled rafters since there's no flat surface (such as a ceiling with joists above it)?
I'm opening the enclosed porch up to the rest of the converted garage. This wall in question used to be an exterior wall so it is a load-bearing wall. The middle half of the wall will be opened up.
This post was edited on 12/17 at 11:50 am
re: Removing a section of a load-bearing wall to open it upPosted by CoachChappy on 12/17/19 at 10:34 am to TDsngumbo
quote:
I'm at a loss since the rafters I need to temporarily support go up at an angle so there's no flat joist or anything to place my temporary support wall on.
What supports the weight of the rafters now? There has to be something up there holding the weight. If there is no joist there, is it a load bearing wall?
re: Removing a section of a load-bearing wall to open it upPosted by TDsngumbo on 12/17/19 at 10:49 am to CoachChappy
The wall supports the rafters. They go up to the center of the roof and down to the wall.
quote:
What is the best way to support the roof while I remove the section of the wall and install the support beam?
I don't really understand this question since you don't know how it is working? You need to get a contractor with some experience doing this over and then come back and ask the questions.
The entire point of a load bearing wall is to support the roof or whatever is above it. So if the wall is removed, you add some support above your opening that is strong enough to support what's above it.
Are you asking how do you support angled rafters with a beam that's not angled?
I THINK he's asking...
How do I support the roof WHILE I remove the wall until I install the support beam.
Basically... How do I keep the roof from falling until I get the support beam installed.
Could be wrong, though.
How do I support the roof WHILE I remove the wall until I install the support beam.
Basically... How do I keep the roof from falling until I get the support beam installed.
Could be wrong, though.
quote:
I THINK he's asking...
How do I support the roof WHILE I remove the wall until I install the support beam.
Basically... How do I keep the roof from falling until I get the support beam installed.
Could be wrong, though.
Bingo!
The problem I have is this:
In most circumstances, I'd just find the attic joists above the ceiling, then run a top plate perpendicular to those joists under the ceiling with studs going down to the floor with a bottom plate to support the roof while I install the support beam. Install beam properly, then remove the temporary wall, allowing the roof to be supported, in part, by the newly installed beam.
However...
In this scenario, there is no "ceiling" and no joists to run a top plate perpendicular to in order to install a temporary support wall. Instead, there are only the roof rafters going upward, extending from the top of the wall in question to the top center of the roof. How do I install a temporary support wall to the angled rafters since there's no flat surface (such as a ceiling with joists above it)?
I'm opening the enclosed porch up to the rest of the converted garage. This wall in question used to be an exterior wall so it is a load-bearing wall. The middle half of the wall will be opened up.
This post was edited on 12/17 at 11:49 am
1. Removing an exterior wall seems like a job for a professional and not a DIY project.
2. Are your roof rafters currently exposed? If so, why not just run your temporary support wall all the way up to them with an angled top plate?
2. Are your roof rafters currently exposed? If so, why not just run your temporary support wall all the way up to them with an angled top plate?
quote:
1. Removing an exterior wall seems like a job for a professional and not a DIY project.
It probably should be but this room in question is such a lightly-built structure that I feel I can handle it if I can figure out how to properly distribute the weight of the roof while installing the beam.
quote:
2. Are your roof rafters currently exposed? If so, why not just run your temporary support wall all the way up to them with an angled top plate?
They are exposed but I'm worried an angled top plate may not properly distribute the weight onto the studs of the temporary support wall. Am I overthinking it?
re: Removing a section of a load-bearing wall to open it upPosted by Boudreaux35 on 12/17/19 at 12:15 pm to TDsngumbo
Are you sure there isn't a beam running perpendicular to the rafter at the peak? Or maybe even beams running perpendicular about halfway up the rafters? That "free body diagram" shown there would tell me that there are horizontal forces at the base of the rafters that need to be resisted. On the left, I could be convinced that the 2 walls around the porch could possibly provide it but on the other side, there is a single vertical member (wall) that would need some kind of bracing to resist the horizontal component of the force.
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re: Removing a section of a load-bearing wall to open it upPosted by TDsngumbo on 12/17/19 at 12:21 pm to Boudreaux35
The porch was an addition that was built about 5-7 years ago, before I owned the property.
I installed radiant barrier to the rafters over the summer and there is no beam running perpendicular half way up. I'm not sure what you're asking when you ask about a beam running perpendicular to the rafters at the peak. There's a center piece at the peak that all the rafters are attached to, yes. Not sure if that's what you're asking though.
I installed radiant barrier to the rafters over the summer and there is no beam running perpendicular half way up. I'm not sure what you're asking when you ask about a beam running perpendicular to the rafters at the peak. There's a center piece at the peak that all the rafters are attached to, yes. Not sure if that's what you're asking though.
This post was edited on 12/17 at 12:28 pm
What kind of roofing material is on the structure. Tin or sheet goods like stuff you can get from Corrugated Industries is not all that heavy a load. If seal tabs, then more weight to be concerned with.
Like already mentioned, just secure a 2 x 4 to the rafters far enough away from the wall you want to remove to have decent work room and go from the floor to the new 2 x 4 to build a temporary wall. You are over-thinking it.
Like already mentioned, just secure a 2 x 4 to the rafters far enough away from the wall you want to remove to have decent work room and go from the floor to the new 2 x 4 to build a temporary wall. You are over-thinking it.
re: Removing a section of a load-bearing wall to open it upPosted by Boudreaux35 on 12/17/19 at 1:49 pm to TDsngumbo
Anyway we could get some photos of the roof. If so, some pics of the overall roof/ceiling, the location near the peak where it meets the end wall(s) and at the low end of the rafters where it meets the "load bearing walls".
quote:
It's a shingle roof.
Then it's just a matter of using more 2x4's to make the temporary wall to hold the weight. I did almost the same thing to a back shed I had to replace a side and rear wall on due to termite damage.
The temporary wall will work fine. Just make sure it is secure at the top with screws to make it easier to remove and not damage the wood and the 2x4's going to the floor are long enough to use friction to keep them from moving by being tight to the floor.
Zappas Stache
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re: Removing a section of a load-bearing wall to open it upPosted by Zappas Stache on 12/17/19 at 1:58 pm to TDsngumbo
Your existing wall will have a top plate of 2 2x4's which the vertical 2x4 studs will be attached to. Then I assume you have a fascia board on the xterior that the porch rafters are attached to. This fascia will be attachd to the top plate. Ideally, whoever built it beefed up the fascia board to a 2x rather than the typical 1x. Either way, demo your wall exterior siding and interior dry wall leaving the wall studs in place and the porch rafters attached to the fascia. You will be able to see whats going on structurally once you do this. You will need to then install a temporary beam bolted to the top plate from the side and supported w/ temporary 2x4 studs. Then you can remove your existing wall studs and install a permanent beam under the existing wall plate and whatever vertical supports are needed. A 2x12 temp beam would be plenty big and a 2x12 new permanent beam would work but you may want a laminated beam that is 4x6 or 4x8 to save headspace. Someone will need to properly size that beam for you. So in the end, you won't need to touch the rafters unless you want to place you temp beam under them and attached to the top plate.
re: Removing a section of a load-bearing wall to open it upPosted by mikie421 on 12/17/19 at 2:49 pm to Zappas Stache
Do you want the new beam to be exposed? If not you have a bit more work to do.
quote:
Do you want the new beam to be exposed? If not you have a bit more work to do.
The problem with exposing the new header could be a height issue. If that wall he wants to remove is 8 ft. high and he puts a couple 2x12's to form the header, then he's down to 7 ft. at that point.
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