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Message
HVAC system replacement quotes
Posted on 2/21/20 at 10:35 am
Posted on 2/21/20 at 10:35 am
No matter how foolish it is, I am just getting quotes from one place. This is because I am in a not so large market and have already fired several area businesses in the past for various reasons. I really like this place I've been using over the last few years. Anyway, my question here is why two of the bids are so divergent.
These are for 2 systems:
Identical looking quotes, but one for 17 SEER and the other for 20 SEER. Pretty sure both are the Evolution series. The 17 will be 2 stage, and the 20 will be variable speed. Other than that, I think the only difference is the 20 quote also includes the fancy Bryant thermostats.
Anyway, my question is, why would these be $8,000(4 per system) different?
Is that 20 SEER variable really that much better than the 17 two stage?
I really like my Nest thermostats. I'm told they won't work with the 20.
My existing systems are 20 years old. Will I be happy with basically anything new?
These are for 2 systems:
quote:
all materials and labor necessary to perform the installation of one new 3-ton Bryant / Carrier 410A- refrigerant condensing unit, 100,000 BTU gas furnace and a 3-ton evaporator. This installation will include flushing out old Freon lines, drain lines, replacing old sheet metal plenum to ensure proper air flow through the home. All duct connections will be sealed with mastic to prevent any air loss. All trash and old equipment will be removed for proper disposal according to EPA guidelines.
Identical looking quotes, but one for 17 SEER and the other for 20 SEER. Pretty sure both are the Evolution series. The 17 will be 2 stage, and the 20 will be variable speed. Other than that, I think the only difference is the 20 quote also includes the fancy Bryant thermostats.
Anyway, my question is, why would these be $8,000(4 per system) different?
Is that 20 SEER variable really that much better than the 17 two stage?
I really like my Nest thermostats. I'm told they won't work with the 20.
My existing systems are 20 years old. Will I be happy with basically anything new?
Posted on 2/21/20 at 10:57 am to AlxTgr
quote:
Anyway, my question is, why would these be $8,000(4 per system) different?
My existing systems are 20 years old. Will I be happy with basically anything new?
Why not ask the HVAC company? It could just simply they sell a lot of the 17 Seer so they get a bulk discount.
I would definitely expect there to be a considerable difference between what you have now.
Posted on 2/21/20 at 11:01 am to AlxTgr
Are you saying the quotes for the 2 stage 17 Seer and multistage 20 Seer are the same? When i received quotes for Trane systems a year ago the price difference between the 2 stage 17 Seer and multistage 18 Seer was very close, less than $1K, which surprised me, as I expected a 2-stage unit to be a good bit cheaper.
Also are you being quoted pricing for 2, 3-ton units for a 2,800 sq ft living area home? If so that sounds to be very over-sized unless it’s an incredible leaky home. I have a single 4 ton unit for 2,500 sq ft (1993 build, vented attic, fiberglass insulation) which keeps the house comfortable in the heat of summer. A manual J using the program I linked in the other post indicates I should have a 3.5 ton unit, so technically I’m slightly over-sized in my home. You should really look into that.
Also if the price is $ 4,000 per unit installed, $8K for 2 units, for 17 or 20 Seer units, that is incredibility good pricing. I’d definitely want quotes from him if he was in BR.
It’s common/norm for them to use existing refrigerant lines and flush it of old refrigerant/oil.
ETA: I guess I misunderstood - the 17 seer unit is $4K cheaper than the 20 Seer per unit? That really does seem to be a big difference in price based on my quotes on similar units for the Trane.
Also are you being quoted pricing for 2, 3-ton units for a 2,800 sq ft living area home? If so that sounds to be very over-sized unless it’s an incredible leaky home. I have a single 4 ton unit for 2,500 sq ft (1993 build, vented attic, fiberglass insulation) which keeps the house comfortable in the heat of summer. A manual J using the program I linked in the other post indicates I should have a 3.5 ton unit, so technically I’m slightly over-sized in my home. You should really look into that.
Also if the price is $ 4,000 per unit installed, $8K for 2 units, for 17 or 20 Seer units, that is incredibility good pricing. I’d definitely want quotes from him if he was in BR.
It’s common/norm for them to use existing refrigerant lines and flush it of old refrigerant/oil.
ETA: I guess I misunderstood - the 17 seer unit is $4K cheaper than the 20 Seer per unit? That really does seem to be a big difference in price based on my quotes on similar units for the Trane.
This post was edited on 2/21/20 at 11:07 am
Posted on 2/21/20 at 11:07 am to CrawDude
quote:They read the same. They are $8K different in price.
Are you saying the quotes for the 2 stage 17 Seer and multistage 20 Seer are the same? When i received quotes for Trane systems a year ago the price difference between the 2 stage 17 Seer and multistage 18 Seer was very close, less than $1K, which surprised me, as I expected a 2-stage unit to be a good bit cheaper.
quote:Yes.
Also are you being quoted pricing for 2, 3-ton units for a 2,800 sq ft living area home?
quote:Oh, no no no
Also if the price is $ 4,000 per unit installed, $8K for 2 units, for 17 or 20 Seer units, that is incredibility good pricing.
That's the difference in prices between the 17 and 20 SEER quotes for 2 systems. The 20 is like $25K total for both.
Posted on 2/21/20 at 12:18 pm to AlxTgr
quote:
That's the difference in prices between the 17 and 20 SEER quotes for 2 systems. The 20 is like $25K total for both.
So you are saying $17k for 2 17 seer and $25k for two 20 seer 3 ton units? That is extremely high.
I'd expect closer to half of that. The units themselves are only going to cost $3000-4000 most likely.
Even if you don't actually plan to use anyone else, you should still get other quotes to hold your guy honest.
Posted on 2/21/20 at 1:07 pm to AlxTgr
Alx, here's the short answer - you pay more for higher SEER, but there comes a point of diminishing returns...17/18 SEER is probably as high as you want to go and still get the payoff over the life of the equipment. The cost for 20 SEER won't net you the savings you'll need to offset the upfront cost. My home system is 18 SEER. And I work for a company that deals in commercial HVAC, FWIW. My response comes from an office full of guys that play in that sandbox all day long. Good luck!
Oh, forgot to add...if your existing is 20 years old, you'll see a massive drop in energy consumption going to a 17 SEER. Keep in mind the greater efficiency as you go up the SEER scale isn't linear...it's logarithmic. Trust me, you'll notice a big difference in your bill.
Oh, forgot to add...if your existing is 20 years old, you'll see a massive drop in energy consumption going to a 17 SEER. Keep in mind the greater efficiency as you go up the SEER scale isn't linear...it's logarithmic. Trust me, you'll notice a big difference in your bill.
This post was edited on 2/21/20 at 1:12 pm
Posted on 2/21/20 at 1:27 pm to AlxTgr
Dude. Call and get as many quotes as you can. I recently got a quote with an A/C that has done all of my stuff for as long as I can recall. I found another guy and he did it for 1/2 the price.
A/C guys are worse than used car salesmen and lawyers.
A/C guys are worse than used car salesmen and lawyers.
Posted on 2/21/20 at 2:43 pm to TD422
quote:
Alx, here's the short answer - you pay more for higher SEER, but there comes a point of diminishing returns...17/18 SEER is probably as high as you want to go and still get the payoff over the life of the equipment. The cost for 20 SEER won't net you the savings you'll need to offset the upfront cost.
This is true and here is a on-line calculator LINK you can use to estimate the anticipated payback period for a more expensive, but significantly more efficient (reduced electrical bill) HVAC system. Keep in mind the HVAC experts state that the expected average life of a HVAC system is 13 to 15 years, whether it is a less expensive single stage system or expensive multistage system. Assume you’ll break-even on $ about the time you might have to replace your HVAC units.
With that in mind, HVAC “experts” suggest that the most important factor to consider is your comfort. Because you stated in the other thread a very quite outdoor and indoor system is very important to you, perhaps that should be the major predetermining factor in your selection. And multistage systems because of their long run times provide exceptional humidity control in summer. What I don’t know is whether a 2-stage system is significantly more “noisy” than a multi-stage system. I do know numerous posters that have multistage HVAC systems have stated they are incredibly quite. But I also suspect that even a new, less expensive single stage, lower SEER system, is likely going to significantly quieter than the old units you have now.
This post was edited on 2/21/20 at 7:29 pm
Posted on 2/21/20 at 3:06 pm to CrawDude
From the brochures, we are talking as low as 58 vs. as low as 70. I have no idea how that sounds in real life. I am guessing that even the higher 70(17 SEER) is substantially more quiet than what I have now.
Posted on 2/21/20 at 3:38 pm to AlxTgr
quote:
From the brochures, we are talking as low as 58 vs. as low as 70. I have no idea how that sounds in real life. I am guessing that even the higher 70(17 SEER) is substantially more quiet than what I have now.
I might be able to help you out here. Assuming you use a smartphone, download the app “Decibel X” (free) and you can measure decibel readings with your phone. A quite room will register about 35 dB, room with TV at normal volume around 55 dB. My HVAC return plenum in my hallway registers about 75 dB which is super loud (my return plenum is a 1/3 undersized for the HVAC tonnage I have and that will be fixed when I replace my system). You can walk outside and get a decibel reading on your current HVAC condensing units for contrast. Have any friends, family, neighbors with quite HVAC units, go get a dB reading on their units with your phone. And decibel readings are not linear, but rather logarithmic, so for example, a dB level of 70 may be twice as loud of a dB of 50.
Posted on 2/21/20 at 5:31 pm to AlxTgr
I updraded from 21yo system last summer to a lowly 14 seer and cut my electric bill in half.
Go for the 17seer, keep your nest thermostats, enjoy the thousands in savings from the 20 seer up front, and thousands in savings down the road.
Go for the 17seer, keep your nest thermostats, enjoy the thousands in savings from the 20 seer up front, and thousands in savings down the road.
This post was edited on 2/21/20 at 5:38 pm
Posted on 2/21/20 at 6:07 pm to deeprig9
just got a 4ton Goodman 14seer installed for $7493
Posted on 2/21/20 at 7:56 pm to AlxTgr
I had two units installed a couple of years ago. They’re both Carrier, 16 or 17 seer and 2.5 and 4 ton units.
It was 20k for both.
It was 20k for both.
Posted on 2/22/20 at 1:46 am to bbvdd
So, my 17 quote isn't looking bad at all.
Posted on 2/22/20 at 5:01 am to AlxTgr
for that price ill drive to alexandira and install
Posted on 3/6/20 at 9:20 am to BigEdLSU
So, all installed yesterday. Only 6 decibels different from old to new, but when sitting on the porch, I had to go look to see if they were running. That's all the reduction I wanted anyway.
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