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ell_13
USA Fan
Member since Apr 2013
62349 posts

re: Stock Shafts vs. Upgraded Shafts
So you're fine with OEM's misleading and lying and overcharging simply because most golfers aren't good enough for the real deal stuff anyway?

The point the author is making is that it's perfectly fine for an OEM to put a non-tour shaft in it's driver for off-the-rack sales... since that's what most people need. But don't pretend that the shaft is anything like its tour/aftermarket counterpart. Because while that may seem like a harmless marketing strategy that won't affect the "majority" of golfers, it can easily lead to better golfers getting put into shite equipment that they were lead to believe would be of a certain quality resulting in certain results.

For example, the Aldila Rogue Silver used to be an option for many driver heads (still is for a few). And if you chose that shaft at checkout, there was ZERO way of knowing that it was completely different than the one that had become popular on tour. So lots of really good players were tricked into thinking they were getting something of the same profile and quality of the 125 msi version when they were in fact getting 110 which is a completely different shaft. And that's still being done with the EvenFlow where there's a (typically blue) "stock" version and the hand-crafted version. Project X even wants people to think they're the same shaft just one is checked more for tolerances, but in truth it's outsourced. It's a downright lie to sell more shafts. Fujikura did this crap with the speeder and evolutions having a stock version and a "TS" version and it's been rumored they are the ones who simply strip the paint and renumber (evolution ii/iii/iv) the shafts so they can keep charging top price even though the shaft hasn't changed in years.

I have no idea why anyone would be okay with these practices much less defend them because "well, those shafts will fit most people anyway."


AlxTgr
LSU Fan
Kyre Banorg
Member since Oct 2003
62425 posts

re: Stock Shafts vs. Upgraded Shafts
quote:

So you're fine with OEM's misleading and lying and overcharging simply because most golfers aren't good enough for the real deal stuff anyway?
I don't feel that I have been misled, and those that have been are just ignorant. No one has been overcharged.

quote:

it can easily lead to better golfers getting put into shite equipment that they were lead to believe would be of a certain quality resulting in certain results.

I don't believe any of it is shite and that's my main problem with the article and your take from the get go.

quote:

had become popular on tour.
Popular ontour has zero bearing on whether or not any consumer with either like it or hit it worth a piss.

quote:

I have no idea why anyone would be okay with these practices much less defend them because "well, those shafts will fit most people anyway."

Because the use of those shafts produce a better overall product for the majority of consumers.


ell_13
USA Fan
Member since Apr 2013
62349 posts

re: Stock Shafts vs. Upgraded Shafts
quote:

those that have been are just ignorant. No one has been overcharged.
So stripping paint and rebranding the same shaft isn't misleading or overcharging???

Not showing specific shafts when choosing direct from OEM isn't misleading?
quote:

I don't believe any of it is shite and that's my main problem with the article and your take from the get go.
What about downright wrong equipment for that golfer? Which would be shite for them.
quote:

Popular ontour has zero bearing on whether or not any consumer with either like it or hit it worth a piss.
It certainly has an impact on if they want it whether to simply test or actually just to have. It's obviously a marketing tool that works. And if someone got fitted into a 125 MSI Rogue Silver that's what they thought they were getting when they ordered it from Callaway a few years ago in the original Epic. How is that not fricked up?
quote:

Because the use of those shafts produce a better overall product for the majority of consumers.
Again, that doesn't make the practices of OEMs defensible. And stop it with this "majority" bull shite. That's simply anything over half. We are still talking about thousands of golfers who end up in the wrong equipment because of these practices.
This post was edited on 2/7 at 9:55 am


AlxTgr
LSU Fan
Kyre Banorg
Member since Oct 2003
62425 posts

re: Stock Shafts vs. Upgraded Shafts
quote:

So stripping paint and rebranding the same shaft isn't misleading or overcharging???
I don't know that this has ever been done. Who did this and what shaft models were involved? How can you say it's overcharging?



quote:

Not showing specific shafts when choosing direct from OEM isn't misleading?
What does this even mean?

quote:

What about downright wrong equipment for that golfer?
When does this happen? You know when? When most people try to hit the real deal graphite driver shafts.



quote:

Again, that doesn't make the practices of OEMs defensible.
It does to me.

quote:

And stop it with this "majority" bull shite. That's simply anything over half.
Fine, then 88.75%


ell_13
USA Fan
Member since Apr 2013
62349 posts

re: Stock Shafts vs. Upgraded Shafts
quote:

I don't know that this has ever been done. Who did this and what shaft models were involved?
So you aren't even reading my posts. I listed the company and shafts already.
quote:

How can you say it's overcharging?
Would you consider it overcharging if a company like Apple took the exact same phone from last year, scraped off the 8 and put 10 so they could charge a higher price while at the same time the lowered the price of the phones still branded with 8? How do you not understand this?
quote:

What does this even mean?
Another example I already explained. When companies make a shaft called the Aldila Rogue Silver with two versions or the Evenflow Blue with two versions and that version isn't listen when choosing the shaft, how is the buy supposed to know if he's getting the real deal or the stock/made-for? How many people even realized two existed when the names and paint are the exact same?
quote:

When does this happen? You know when? When most people try to hit the real deal graphite driver shafts.
You are so fricking obtuse. When someone gets fit into something (a good golfer who wants/needs the real deal) and tries to order it themselves and gets fooled into the stock that has the same name and paint. It's pretty straight forward.
quote:

Fine, then 88.75%
11.25% of driver purchases is still thousands every year. If you include all OEMs and all golfers, it's in the hundreds of thousands. Glad you're cool with that.


AlxTgr
LSU Fan
Kyre Banorg
Member since Oct 2003
62425 posts

re: Stock Shafts vs. Upgraded Shafts
quote:

You are so fricking obtuse.
I can't believe you're so angry over a simple disagreement.


ell_13
USA Fan
Member since Apr 2013
62349 posts

re: Stock Shafts vs. Upgraded Shafts
Assigning an emotion, especially one that’s not true, to my post isn’t going to prove any of your terrible arguments.



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Tigersonfire
LSU Fan
Pville
Member since Oct 2018
204 posts

re: Stock Shafts vs. Upgraded Shafts
1000% go get fitted. It'll change your game.


Big L
Houston Astros Fan
Houston
Member since Sep 2005
3251 posts

re: Stock Shafts vs. Upgraded Shafts
Just one datapoint from my experience to provide some insight, I got fitted at club champion last year, just a driver fitting. They start off just warming you up with your current driver and then getting some baseline reAdings off your better hits. I was swinging 109-111 with a high spin rate, high launch angle and a 1.42 smash factor. This was using a store bought Callaway alpha 815 with “stiff” flex shaft. I had just played on a tournament (the fun kind) and hit it well, exceptionally straight but too high of a launch angle and the wind was killing me.

The fitter decided to go straight to the stiffest shaft he had, forget what it was called, but put it on my existing head. My next three hits all had a lower launch angle, lower soon rate, and 1.48 or 1.49 smash factor. For those who don’t know (as I didn’t) the smash factor is the ball speed divided by the the club head speed. A 1.50 is considered optimal.

The projected distances on the launch monitor jumped from the 270-280 range to the 290-300 range. From there we tried different shafts in various weights and stiffnesses and other technical stuff I didn’t understand until he was happy with the top 2 then we started trying different heads. For me the Taylor made m3 440 with the tour spec speeder was the winner. I went in with a bias toward Callaway but I couldn’t hit the rogue straight. I also spin it too much for the long G10 (according to him).

After a week or so I got the new driver in and was amazed at how much more penetrating the flight is and I hit some of them stupid far. The twist face seemed to forgiving as well. The kicker is that the shaft cost almost as much as the head, so I couldn’t afford to get fitted for fairway woods or irons...but I’m truly a believer now in the difference the right shaft can make.


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