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diddlydawg7
Georgia Fan
Member since Oct 2017
2241 posts

Obscure rules Question
My 14 year old son was playing in a Hurricane Junior Golf Tour event. He is much better than his father :). After the first round, he was t-2nd. He was in the final group going into 18 of the second round. He was having the best round of his life, and was up 2 strokes.

On 18, he hooked his drive left, appearing to be OB. His provisional hooked even more than the first. He hit his 3rd provisional in the fairway. As we went to look for his 1st ball, a woman finally found it deep in the woods.

The OB stakes were sort of around the treeline, but here is where it gets confusing. The ball would normally be OB, but someone had previously pulled out a stake close to the ball. Since it had been removed, by looking down the line of the 2 next closest stakes, his ball was in bounds.

He played rule 3-3 and played 2 balls. With the first one, he made a bogey, with his 3rd, he made an 8. (par 4) When he asked the rules official, he said he didn’t know, so he looked through the rules of golf booklet. The official only skimmed through, and he said he didn’t see anything regarding that rule. My son ended up winning by 1. I told him I thought he probably got away with one.

Does anyone know the correct ruling?
This post was edited on 3/7 at 5:54 pm


ell_13
USA Fan
Member since Apr 2013
60625 posts

re: Obscure rules Question
I believe if a stake has been moved from its intended spot, and you know where it’s supposed to be, you play it as it should be marked.


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Thib-a-doe Tiger
LSU Fan
LaTour and in BRgetthenet's head
Member since Nov 2012
27365 posts
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re: Obscure rules Question
I’ve got a question for ya, and it may be simple but I’ve never played in a tournament.


Did he mark each tee ball differently?


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CoachChappy
LSU Fan
Boudin Capitol of the World
Member since May 2013
19329 posts

re: Obscure rules Question
He got away with one. It happens.


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Golfer
LSU Fan
Member since Nov 2005
70681 posts
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re: Obscure rules Question
Was the stake the was removed still in the area? Or completely missing?


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threeputt
Notre Dame Fan
God's Country
Member since Sep 2008
24077 posts

re: Obscure rules Question
He should have played two balls (as he did) and the committee should have decided the ruling. He did everything under the rules and "didn't get away with one".

I will say that the committee probably missed on this one and should have ruled the ball out of bounds. Tiger Woods at the masters all over again

Congrats to your kid


tiderider
Alabama Fan
Member since Nov 2012
7703 posts

re: Obscure rules Question
he didn't get away with anything ...

he played two balls and reported everything ... was honest while giving himself a fair chance to win ...

doesn't matter what the rule was, is or should be ...


BuyloSellhi
Member since May 2017
315 posts

re: Obscure rules Question
Agree.


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Tigertracks
LSU Fan
Houma La.
Member since Nov 2007
707 posts

re: Obscure rules Question
The committee or rules official has the final say.

That said, if the OB or hazard stake is missing, you should try to determine where the line likely is normally located, and not just draw a line between the next nearest markers, which could be quite a distance from the actual line. It is a game which relies on honesty. Such boundaries often follow the route of a pond or tall grass and are not directly between the markers.


nobigdeal69
LSU Fan
baton rouge
Member since Nov 2009
1044 posts

re: Obscure rules Question
quote:

he didn't get away with anything ... he played two balls and reported everything ... was honest while giving himself a fair chance to win ... doesn't matter what the rule was, is or should be ...


Yup


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unbeWEAVEable
Chicago Cubs Fan
The Golf Board Godfather
Member since Apr 2010
13559 posts

re: Obscure rules Question
You play what is marked. If they stake was removed, it’s his benefit. You can’t say “there used to be a line there” or “there used to be a stake there”.

If his ball was in bounds with the closest two stakes, his ball was in bounds.

ETA: just to alleviate any confusion with this post, marked areas on the course change periodically. It is not different than if his ball had landed close to water. If, in the past, a line had been drawn but is no longer visible, you must rule by the stakes. If the stakes show the ball is not in the hazard, but the “old” line you used to see would have shown that it was, you go by the stakes.

Bringing it to the rules committee was the right move. The rules committee should have ruled his ball in bounds, which they did.
This post was edited on 3/8 at 3:51 am


ell_13
USA Fan
Member since Apr 2013
60625 posts

re: Obscure rules Question
That’s not entirely true.

He did the right thing by playing two balls and relying on the rules committee. But if they knew that the stakes were moved or missing, they should rule it as if the course markers were in their intended place:

quote:

A displaced boundary stake is a movable obstruction. Therefore, the player may replace it but he is not required to do so.

In this scenario, Player A should alert his playing competitors of the condition, allow them to observe the proceedings, and Player A should play two balls: one as his drive lies in bounds and one as if the ball was out-of-bounds. After the round, Player A should consult with the course pro to determine where the stake should have been and take the appropriate score.
So it’s all about where the stake SHOULD have been. However, if the rules committee is uncertain, then I think they were right in scoring the first ball.


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AtlantaLSUfan
Chicago Cubs Fan
now back in Baton Rouge
Member since Mar 2009
13946 posts

re: Obscure rules Question
Looks like it was handled well by all.

Would be nice if golf had smaller penalties for situations like this, but it’s all or nothing.

You’re right, this was a tremendous break.


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NaturalBeam
LSU Fan
Member since Sep 2007
13821 posts

re: Obscure rules Question
quote:

That said, if the OB or hazard stake is missing, you should try to determine where the line likely is normally located, and not just draw a line between the next nearest markers, which could be quite a distance from the actual line. It is a game which relies on honesty. Such boundaries often follow the route of a pond or tall grass and are not directly between the markers.
Sounds like he did all that and let the officials decide. At what point was he not honest?


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HubbaBubba
LSU Fan
RIP - los angeles tiger
Member since Oct 2010
25590 posts
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re: Obscure rules Question
Had a similar fate when I played a tournament at Southern Trace in Shreveport. Coming into 18 I had a very wide and comfortable five stroke lead over two others for 1st. Snapped my shot wide right and it bounced around in the trees and we thought it might be OB. Hit third shot off the tee. Couldn't find my first ball, so hit my second ball. Just right after I hit my second ball, one of the players spotted my first ball in the ditch and in-bounds. I took a drop and played both balls. With the first ball I ended up shooting Par 5. With the second ball I ended up shooting a very careful conservative 8. One of the players shot a Birdie 4, to make it real close, because at the clubhouse, the pro discarded my first ball as a lost ball because I played my provisional before finding the first ball. So I won by a single stroke.


tiderider
Alabama Fan
Member since Nov 2012
7703 posts

re: Obscure rules Question
quote:

ad a similar fate when I played a tournament at Southern Trace in Shreveport. Coming into 18 I had a very wide and comfortable five stroke lead over two others for 1st. Snapped my shot wide right and it bounced around in the trees and we thought it might be OB. Hit third shot off the tee. Couldn't find my first ball, so hit my second ball. Just right after I hit my second ball, one of the players spotted my first ball in the ditch and in-bounds. I took a drop and played both balls. With the first ball I ended up shooting Par 5. With the second ball I ended up shooting a very careful conservative 8. One of the players shot a Birdie 4, to make it real close, because at the clubhouse, the pro discarded my first ball as a lost ball because I played my provisional before finding the first ball. So I won by a single stroke.




not surprised ... you lefties are essentially communists ... probably played an orange or yellow ball ...




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mtntiger
LSU Fan
Asheville, NC
Member since Oct 2003
15986 posts

re: Obscure rules Question
Your son played the hole correctly.

The ruling is what it is.

Congratulations to your son, but teach him to play for par on the last hole. Keep the driver in the bag and make his opponent have to beat him.

Phil and Jean Van De Velde will back me on this.


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