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Started By
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500k is the breakeven point on PGA Tour
Posted on 10/12/21 at 2:20 pm
Posted on 10/12/21 at 2:20 pm
Speaking on the Full Send podcast this week, Bryson DeChambeau revealed that any player outside of the top 165 on the Tour’s money list is losing money every year.
Asked to breakdown why that is, Bryson explained how as independent contractors, life is very costly on Tour:
“We’re independent contractors. We’ve got to pay for all of our expenses—every hotel we have to pay on our own, food etc. You do everything yourself. And you’ve got a family to feed. And you’re missing cuts. And when you miss a cut, you make nothing.
To put Bryson’s statement into context, the 166th player on the 2020 PGA Tour money list made $486,337 in earnings, which shows that, if accurate, earning half a million dollars on Tour each year likely only allows a player to break even.
Asked to breakdown why that is, Bryson explained how as independent contractors, life is very costly on Tour:
“We’re independent contractors. We’ve got to pay for all of our expenses—every hotel we have to pay on our own, food etc. You do everything yourself. And you’ve got a family to feed. And you’re missing cuts. And when you miss a cut, you make nothing.
To put Bryson’s statement into context, the 166th player on the 2020 PGA Tour money list made $486,337 in earnings, which shows that, if accurate, earning half a million dollars on Tour each year likely only allows a player to break even.
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Posted on 10/12/21 at 2:25 pm to bopper50
This is ridiculous
My good friend makes roughly 500k a year as a pro tennis player and he lives an upper midddle class lifestyle with those earnings, and he has far worse travel and far less endorsements to an equivalent golfer making 500k
Bryson may have 500k in expenses because he makes so much money it allows him to take on those expenses (first class, private jets, huge hotels or private houses, paying for a “team” to travel) etc etc
But those aren’t close to “necessity”
My good friend makes roughly 500k a year as a pro tennis player and he lives an upper midddle class lifestyle with those earnings, and he has far worse travel and far less endorsements to an equivalent golfer making 500k
Bryson may have 500k in expenses because he makes so much money it allows him to take on those expenses (first class, private jets, huge hotels or private houses, paying for a “team” to travel) etc etc
But those aren’t close to “necessity”
This post was edited on 10/12/21 at 2:39 pm
Posted on 10/12/21 at 2:42 pm to lsupride87
Yeah, I highly doubt it costs the average pro golfer 500k a year in expenses.
Posted on 10/12/21 at 3:07 pm to redfieldk717
Texted my tennis buddy, will respond with what he says his expenses were
For example, here was his 2019 schedule, where he made 645k
New Zealand
Australia
Netherlands
France
Dubai
Palm Springs
Miami
Morocco
Italy
France(Lyon)
France(Paris)
Netherlands
Germany
Britain
Washington
Montreal
Cincy
New York
Indonesia
China(Beijing)
China(Shanghai)
Switzerland
France
Britain
That schedule is 100x tougher than a golfer as well
For example, here was his 2019 schedule, where he made 645k
New Zealand
Australia
Netherlands
France
Dubai
Palm Springs
Miami
Morocco
Italy
France(Lyon)
France(Paris)
Netherlands
Germany
Britain
Washington
Montreal
Cincy
New York
Indonesia
China(Beijing)
China(Shanghai)
Switzerland
France
Britain
That schedule is 100x tougher than a golfer as well
Posted on 10/12/21 at 3:17 pm to bopper50
Max Homa spoke about this on NLU. He said he budgeted 75-100k for travel when he first started out but that was eating at outback and staying at Hampton ins with no one else to pay for.
Posted on 10/12/21 at 3:26 pm to ell_13
They can do it for a lot less than $500k. Hell, they can eat every meal at the course for free if they choose to.
Posted on 10/12/21 at 3:38 pm to TDTOM
Just texted back. He said roughly 125k for the above schedule I posted above
He also said the top level tennis players are same as Dechambeau. Completely out of touch with how the lower level players live
He also said the top level tennis players are same as Dechambeau. Completely out of touch with how the lower level players live
This post was edited on 10/12/21 at 3:40 pm
Posted on 10/12/21 at 3:47 pm to bopper50
This is the same dude who flow home to Dallas thinking he missed the cut, then had to fly back to Charlotte to make his tee time the next morning. NetJets are expensive, but the guy who is 165 on the money list isn't flying private.
Posted on 10/12/21 at 4:02 pm to lsupride87
quote:
For example, here was his 2019 schedule, where he made 645k
I am horrified to see what the taxes were like on that schedule
Posted on 10/12/21 at 4:04 pm to bopper50
quote:
To put Bryson’s statement into context, the 166th player on the 2020 PGA Tour money list made $486,337 in earnings, which shows that, if accurate, earning half a million dollars on Tour each year likely only allows a player to break even.
So were just ignoring sponsor money?
Posted on 10/12/21 at 4:49 pm to lsuhunt555
It’s not as much as you think for the bottom tier guys first getting on tour.
Posted on 10/12/21 at 5:49 pm to ell_13
I don’t disagree there, but a guy whose ranked 166th is probably pulling in at least ~1k/tourney in sponsorship money, no? That’s going to help some.
Posted on 10/12/21 at 5:49 pm to ell_13
The only thing that I would say, if you are 166th on the money list, you probably missed a lot of cuts and did some Monday qualifying which would increase your expenses.
Posted on 10/12/21 at 6:03 pm to bopper50
That wouldn’t surprise me when you factor in:
- 10% to your caddy
- 32-35% to the feds for income tax
- State taxes
- Health insurance
- 401(k)
- Swing coach
- Travel expenses all over the world, sometimes last minute bookings
- 10% to your caddy
- 32-35% to the feds for income tax
- State taxes
- Health insurance
- 401(k)
- Swing coach
- Travel expenses all over the world, sometimes last minute bookings
This post was edited on 10/13/21 at 12:58 am
Posted on 10/12/21 at 6:12 pm to The Pirate King
Lots of the guys just starting on tour aren’t traveling overseas.
Posted on 10/12/21 at 6:51 pm to The Pirate King
quote:
32-35% to the feds for income tax
Not that much, especially if they are independent contractors. Lots of expense deductions available to them.
Posted on 10/12/21 at 6:59 pm to GRTiger
Max addressed that too a little. Said he now puts everything on a business card. Lots of the expenses are considered work or business expenses. Lots of write offs.
This post was edited on 10/12/21 at 6:59 pm
Posted on 10/12/21 at 7:03 pm to ell_13
quote:99% of them are work expenses that are deducted
Lots of the expenses are considered work or business expenses.
Posted on 10/12/21 at 7:16 pm to The Pirate King
quote:
Travel expenses all over the world, sometimes last minute bookings, 10% to your caddy, swing coach
so business expenses?
quote:
32-35% to the feds for income tax
before or after those tax deductible business expenses?
These guys can get by easily on $2k/week if they had to. Probably $1500/week. So $50k-$70k a year..
So in reality 1/10 of what Bryson thinks.
Posted on 10/12/21 at 7:32 pm to PhiTiger1764
I disagree on the 50-70k. Even a Hampton inn can be $200/night and they’re often there 5 nights. You’re going to spend more in New York and California. Then you have the flight, the food, and what if your wife wants to be at a few events? The kids? Like I said, Max expenses between 75-100k for travel alone when he was first starting.
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