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Started By
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Posted on 11/8/17 at 1:58 pm
Posted on 11/8/17 at 1:58 pm
(no message)
This post was edited on 8/18/18 at 11:52 pm
Posted on 11/9/17 at 11:28 am to MeridianDog
Nothing like a boxed cake tutorial
This post was edited on 11/9/17 at 11:31 am
Posted on 11/9/17 at 12:49 pm to Caplewood
quote:
Boxed Cake Tutorial
Maybe I am a boxed cake kind of guy.
Sorry for the insult to your skill level.
I bid you peace.
Posted on 11/9/17 at 12:50 pm to Caplewood
quote:
Nothing like a boxed cake tutorial
You have many dough conditioners in your pantry?
If not, you will be hard pressed to create a cake better than boxed.
Posted on 11/9/17 at 12:51 pm to Caplewood
quote:
Nothing like a boxed cake tutorial
This wasn’t necessary. I’d eat the shite out of that cake MD
Posted on 11/9/17 at 12:56 pm to X123F45
I would tell you the very best test of oven capability (Calibration) is to bake a boxed cake mix to package directions (time and temperature). If it comes out ok, then your oven temperature settings are trustworthy.
This statement on oven calibration comes from a person who, for 45 years, was responsible for calibration verification documentation and regulatory control of many many industrial (Ethical drug pharmaceutical) heat transfer devices at numerous facilities and maybe 2500 drug products.
I guess that makes me an expert.
Maybe I'm not a good cook. But I also was a hell of a process and R&D Chemist for a long time.
This statement on oven calibration comes from a person who, for 45 years, was responsible for calibration verification documentation and regulatory control of many many industrial (Ethical drug pharmaceutical) heat transfer devices at numerous facilities and maybe 2500 drug products.
I guess that makes me an expert.
Maybe I'm not a good cook. But I also was a hell of a process and R&D Chemist for a long time.
This post was edited on 11/9/17 at 12:59 pm
Posted on 11/10/17 at 6:50 am to MeridianDog
I will give you a case of Mountain Dew if you promise to never use the phrase “money shot” again in a post.
Posted on 11/10/17 at 8:17 am to MeridianDog
quote:
DO NOT STIR THEM!
I’m curious. Why?
What would we see as a difference in quality?
Posted on 11/10/17 at 10:10 am to Willie Stroker
quote:
DO NOT STIR THEM! I’m curious. Why?
The proper tempering of chocolate is one of the dark arts. If properly done, the chocolate will have a beautiful, shiny sheen, with no visually detectable granulation. Think Godiva Chocolates....
If done wrong, the crystalline structure of the chocolate changes and you get grainy, dull chocolate that eventually will change to surface abnormalities - think powdery dull Cocoa dust on an old Milkyway candy bar, that you hate as soon as you open the wrapper.
I worked out the Process Chemistry (R&D - Product and Process Development) on an OTC hemorrhoid suppository drug product 10 years (+-) ago and learned much more about heating and cooling chocolate than I ever wanted to know (The base for a hemorrhoid suppository is Cocoa Butter, which melts just a smidgen below (94 degrees F) body temperature (98.6 degrees F). You can figure out why that is important. We determined the exact rate of heating to bring the cocoa butter to melting point and then to cool it back to solid state so that the finished suppository would be nice and slick and not granular or nasty looking, because how a suppository looks is important.
Back to the chocolate. Getting a nice granular free (Smooth) Ganache requires the chocolate to be melted slowly and then cooled slowly Cool it too fast and the Ganache will look horrible, like it is full of sand and eventually going powdery. Sometimes it will separate also. These bad chocolate characteristics are caused by the formation of three (out of four) of the potentially bad crystalline structures chocolate can have (Gamma, Alpha and Beta prime structures). The good structure you want from chocolate is the beta structure - what you get when chocolate is properly tempered so that as it cools, only the Beta structure forms. Heat it too much and cool it wrong and you get lots of Gamma, Alpha and Beta Prime crystalline structure in the solidified chocolate and it gets granular, which allows the Cocoa butter to fall (weep) out of the crystal matrix and you get bad chocolate, or in this case bad ganache.
Why do you put a lid on it and not stir the chocolate/milk mixture? That allows the chocolate to melt properly (slowly), to a good temperature and then cool properly when you finally begin to stir it after 15 minutes of existence (tempering) at the proper temperature. Well tempered chocolate is smooth, shiny and has a good snap when broken. Actually consumer preference surveys showed us it was the same with Hemorrhoid Suppositories!
I am certain this is more than you wanted to know about why Hemorrhoid Suppositories and Godiva Chocolate are just alike, but you get that when you ask a suppository process chemist expert a question about making ganache.
This post was edited on 11/10/17 at 11:11 am
Posted on 11/10/17 at 10:59 am to FieldandStream1
My definition of "Money Shot" is what I give to you in return for all of the money you pay me to do these photo posts.
Sorry it bothers you.
I try to not criticize what others do on here, but I have no real love for Mt. Dew. Sorry just another bad thing about me.
I am a Diet Dr. Pepper and Tater Tots kind of guy.
If you are able, just ignore my quirks of character. I went through a lot to get the way I am.
Sorry it bothers you.
I try to not criticize what others do on here, but I have no real love for Mt. Dew. Sorry just another bad thing about me.
I am a Diet Dr. Pepper and Tater Tots kind of guy.
If you are able, just ignore my quirks of character. I went through a lot to get the way I am.
This post was edited on 11/10/17 at 11:01 am
Posted on 11/10/17 at 4:41 pm to MeridianDog
quote:
We determined the exact rate of heating to bring the cocoa butter to melting point and then to cool it back to solid state so that the finished suppository would be nice and slick and not granular or nasty looking, because how a suppository looks is important.
I think I love you. Do you have a sister?
Posted on 11/10/17 at 4:46 pm to MeridianDog
quote:
I worked out the Process Chemistry (R&D - Product and Process Development) on an OTC hemorrhoid suppository drug product 10 years (+-) ago and learned much more about heating and cooling chocolate than I ever wanted to know (The base for a hemorrhoid suppository is Cocoa Butter, which melts just a smidgen below (94 degrees F) body temperature (98.6 degrees F). You can figure out why that is important. We determined the exact rate of heating to bring the cocoa butter to melting point and then to cool it back to solid state so that the finished suppository would be nice and slick and not granular or nasty looking, because how a suppository looks is important.
Sweet, fancy Moses
Posted on 11/13/17 at 7:36 pm to MeridianDog
I did a few things differently. Got a question or two only you would be able to answer
When making the cake, I tried to leave the cherries as whole as possible. Which naturally left me running short of liquid. Added a little water to thin it out.
All worked really well.
The ganache was perfect for me. Not too sweet.
Unfortunately the wife liles things a little sweeter.
Rather than ruin your ganache with syrup, I used the only sweet thing I had on hand. Dulche de leche.
I whipped it in with a fork slowly adding it.
The ganache was shiney and soft.
After a day on the cake, it set on the outside. Dried into a very light set, lost its shine, dull sheen. But underneath, it was still soft and very creamy.
Chemically, why?
When making the cake, I tried to leave the cherries as whole as possible. Which naturally left me running short of liquid. Added a little water to thin it out.
All worked really well.
The ganache was perfect for me. Not too sweet.
Unfortunately the wife liles things a little sweeter.
Rather than ruin your ganache with syrup, I used the only sweet thing I had on hand. Dulche de leche.
I whipped it in with a fork slowly adding it.
The ganache was shiney and soft.
After a day on the cake, it set on the outside. Dried into a very light set, lost its shine, dull sheen. But underneath, it was still soft and very creamy.
Chemically, why?
Posted on 11/13/17 at 8:15 pm to X123F45
Rando:
The smartest thing I can say is "I don't know."
Having said that, the formation of sheen and crispness of the chocolate is totally dependent on crystal formation in the cocoa butter component of the chocolate and the level of each of the crystalline structure possibilities formed as the chocolate sets.
You will recall I mentioned the Gamma, Alpha and Beta prime structures that can form if tempering (Maximum temperature reached in melting the time the chocolate is held at the maximum temperature and the rate of cooling) varies from the magic combination that produces beta structure.
Several things happened when you mixed the dulche de leche in with your chocolate. You altered the crystalline formation as it cooled.
How? I don't know, but evidently you caused more of the bad crystals to form as the chocolate hardened than you wanted, and that caused the sheen to break and the texture to change. Even the best chocolate has all four structures present, just more of the beta structure in high quality chocolate.
When candy bars are stored at too hot a temperature, this altering of the percentage of the four structures can occur and the outer surface of the chocolate will change, causing (eventually) a light brown powdery film to form. This could have happened because of the caramel formation (Maillard reaction) and how the structure of the milk caramel affected the solidification of the chocolate.
There are other ways to make a ganache. The way I used is the most reliable.
I feel like I am wasting your time. Next time, choose a sweeter chocolate and that will help fix the problem.
wow - This is a very rich and sweet cake as it is.
The smartest thing I can say is "I don't know."
Having said that, the formation of sheen and crispness of the chocolate is totally dependent on crystal formation in the cocoa butter component of the chocolate and the level of each of the crystalline structure possibilities formed as the chocolate sets.
You will recall I mentioned the Gamma, Alpha and Beta prime structures that can form if tempering (Maximum temperature reached in melting the time the chocolate is held at the maximum temperature and the rate of cooling) varies from the magic combination that produces beta structure.
Several things happened when you mixed the dulche de leche in with your chocolate. You altered the crystalline formation as it cooled.
How? I don't know, but evidently you caused more of the bad crystals to form as the chocolate hardened than you wanted, and that caused the sheen to break and the texture to change. Even the best chocolate has all four structures present, just more of the beta structure in high quality chocolate.
When candy bars are stored at too hot a temperature, this altering of the percentage of the four structures can occur and the outer surface of the chocolate will change, causing (eventually) a light brown powdery film to form. This could have happened because of the caramel formation (Maillard reaction) and how the structure of the milk caramel affected the solidification of the chocolate.
There are other ways to make a ganache. The way I used is the most reliable.
I feel like I am wasting your time. Next time, choose a sweeter chocolate and that will help fix the problem.
wow - This is a very rich and sweet cake as it is.
This post was edited on 11/13/17 at 8:17 pm
Posted on 11/13/17 at 11:16 pm to MeridianDog
quote:
I feel like I am wasting your time. Next time, choose a sweeter chocolate and that will help fix the problem.
wow - This is a very rich and sweet cake as it is.
Not at all. I was just curious how a liquid at any temperature sugar and fat solution caused a panache to have a hard shell.
Reason being, it would make an astounding dipping chocolate if I could reliably replicate it
As for being too sweet, you are 100% correct. The cake was very nicely balanced before the addition of sweetness to the ganache. I had some just now and it reminded me of eating fudge. On by the cake full.
Posted on 11/14/17 at 5:44 am to MeridianDog
The cake looks delicious.
The whole thread is interesting, both for the science info as well as the social science of people who can't resist being assholes.
The whole thread is interesting, both for the science info as well as the social science of people who can't resist being assholes.
Posted on 11/14/17 at 12:08 pm to MeridianDog
MD,
I made the cake this weekend and it was delicious. I only heated the cream 1:30 and it was bubbling so I took it out and added the chips. Waited the 15 minutes then stirred, but it never got thin like you said. After I frosted the cake and it set up, the ganache became somewhat firm and dull, but still delicious. Do you think I needed to let the cream go a little longer in the microwave.
Thank You for all your information and insight. It is greatly appreciated!
I made the cake this weekend and it was delicious. I only heated the cream 1:30 and it was bubbling so I took it out and added the chips. Waited the 15 minutes then stirred, but it never got thin like you said. After I frosted the cake and it set up, the ganache became somewhat firm and dull, but still delicious. Do you think I needed to let the cream go a little longer in the microwave.
Thank You for all your information and insight. It is greatly appreciated!
Posted on 11/14/17 at 12:23 pm to King9274
When the cream bubbles, you should be ready to go. Honestly, just a moment or two after it boils in the microwave, it is boiling over the top. You could do it over a burner or electric eye, just do the heat really low. You could do it over a double boiler, just takes longer that way.
A little speculation:
Maybe you used more chocolate than it called for?
Maybe the brand of chocolate you used had a higher melting point (less Cocoa Butter, which is the part that melts).
Maybe you used less cream. Even a tablespoon will make a big difference. If it is not thin enough, you can add a little more cream (1/2 to 1 Tablespoon at a time)and heat it again for maybe 15-30 seconds and stir until incorporated.
Sometimes, we just slowly pour the ganache over a bunt or layer cake and build a drizzle effect as it runs down the sides. When doing that, we chill the ganache until it is more solid.
If it spreads ok, the thickness or thinness doesn't really matter.
Was it still creamy. Stirring adds air to the ganache and makes it more creamy.
Adding a little melted butter can help with creaminess or thinness.
No two different brands of chocolate melt the same. They may taste the same, but melt totally differently. The cocoa content will drastically impact melt and thinness characteristics.
A little speculation:
Maybe you used more chocolate than it called for?
Maybe the brand of chocolate you used had a higher melting point (less Cocoa Butter, which is the part that melts).
Maybe you used less cream. Even a tablespoon will make a big difference. If it is not thin enough, you can add a little more cream (1/2 to 1 Tablespoon at a time)and heat it again for maybe 15-30 seconds and stir until incorporated.
Sometimes, we just slowly pour the ganache over a bunt or layer cake and build a drizzle effect as it runs down the sides. When doing that, we chill the ganache until it is more solid.
If it spreads ok, the thickness or thinness doesn't really matter.
Was it still creamy. Stirring adds air to the ganache and makes it more creamy.
Adding a little melted butter can help with creaminess or thinness.
No two different brands of chocolate melt the same. They may taste the same, but melt totally differently. The cocoa content will drastically impact melt and thinness characteristics.
This post was edited on 11/14/17 at 12:26 pm
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