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Started By
Message
re: Stock Shafts vs. Upgraded Shafts
Posted on 2/7/19 at 8:59 am to AlxTgr
Posted on 2/7/19 at 8:59 am to AlxTgr
So you're fine with OEM's misleading and lying and overcharging simply because most golfers aren't good enough for the real deal stuff anyway?
The point the author is making is that it's perfectly fine for an OEM to put a non-tour shaft in it's driver for off-the-rack sales... since that's what most people need. But don't pretend that the shaft is anything like its tour/aftermarket counterpart. Because while that may seem like a harmless marketing strategy that won't affect the "majority" of golfers, it can easily lead to better golfers getting put into shite equipment that they were lead to believe would be of a certain quality resulting in certain results.
For example, the Aldila Rogue Silver used to be an option for many driver heads (still is for a few). And if you chose that shaft at checkout, there was ZERO way of knowing that it was completely different than the one that had become popular on tour. So lots of really good players were tricked into thinking they were getting something of the same profile and quality of the 125 msi version when they were in fact getting 110 which is a completely different shaft. And that's still being done with the EvenFlow where there's a (typically blue) "stock" version and the hand-crafted version. Project X even wants people to think they're the same shaft just one is checked more for tolerances, but in truth it's outsourced. It's a downright lie to sell more shafts. Fujikura did this crap with the speeder and evolutions having a stock version and a "TS" version and it's been rumored they are the ones who simply strip the paint and renumber (evolution ii/iii/iv) the shafts so they can keep charging top price even though the shaft hasn't changed in years.
I have no idea why anyone would be okay with these practices much less defend them because "well, those shafts will fit most people anyway."
The point the author is making is that it's perfectly fine for an OEM to put a non-tour shaft in it's driver for off-the-rack sales... since that's what most people need. But don't pretend that the shaft is anything like its tour/aftermarket counterpart. Because while that may seem like a harmless marketing strategy that won't affect the "majority" of golfers, it can easily lead to better golfers getting put into shite equipment that they were lead to believe would be of a certain quality resulting in certain results.
For example, the Aldila Rogue Silver used to be an option for many driver heads (still is for a few). And if you chose that shaft at checkout, there was ZERO way of knowing that it was completely different than the one that had become popular on tour. So lots of really good players were tricked into thinking they were getting something of the same profile and quality of the 125 msi version when they were in fact getting 110 which is a completely different shaft. And that's still being done with the EvenFlow where there's a (typically blue) "stock" version and the hand-crafted version. Project X even wants people to think they're the same shaft just one is checked more for tolerances, but in truth it's outsourced. It's a downright lie to sell more shafts. Fujikura did this crap with the speeder and evolutions having a stock version and a "TS" version and it's been rumored they are the ones who simply strip the paint and renumber (evolution ii/iii/iv) the shafts so they can keep charging top price even though the shaft hasn't changed in years.
I have no idea why anyone would be okay with these practices much less defend them because "well, those shafts will fit most people anyway."
1
Posted on 2/7/19 at 9:21 am to ell_13
quote:I don't feel that I have been misled, and those that have been are just ignorant. No one has been overcharged.
So you're fine with OEM's misleading and lying and overcharging simply because most golfers aren't good enough for the real deal stuff anyway?
quote:I don't believe any of it is shite and that's my main problem with the article and your take from the get go.
it can easily lead to better golfers getting put into shite equipment that they were lead to believe would be of a certain quality resulting in certain results.
quote:Popular ontour has zero bearing on whether or not any consumer with either like it or hit it worth a piss.
had become popular on tour.
quote:Because the use of those shafts produce a better overall product for the majority of consumers.
I have no idea why anyone would be okay with these practices much less defend them because "well, those shafts will fit most people anyway."
Posted on 2/7/19 at 9:49 am to AlxTgr
quote:So stripping paint and rebranding the same shaft isn't misleading or overcharging???
those that have been are just ignorant. No one has been overcharged.
Not showing specific shafts when choosing direct from OEM isn't misleading?
quote:What about downright wrong equipment for that golfer? Which would be shite for them.
I don't believe any of it is shite and that's my main problem with the article and your take from the get go.
quote:It certainly has an impact on if they want it whether to simply test or actually just to have. It's obviously a marketing tool that works. And if someone got fitted into a 125 MSI Rogue Silver that's what they thought they were getting when they ordered it from Callaway a few years ago in the original Epic. How is that not fricked up?
Popular ontour has zero bearing on whether or not any consumer with either like it or hit it worth a piss.
quote:Again, that doesn't make the practices of OEMs defensible. And stop it with this "majority" bullshite. That's simply anything over half. We are still talking about thousands of golfers who end up in the wrong equipment because of these practices.
Because the use of those shafts produce a better overall product for the majority of consumers.
This post was edited on 2/7/19 at 9:55 am
Posted on 2/7/19 at 10:13 am to ell_13
quote:I don't know that this has ever been done. Who did this and what shaft models were involved? How can you say it's overcharging?
So stripping paint and rebranding the same shaft isn't misleading or overcharging???
quote:What does this even mean?
Not showing specific shafts when choosing direct from OEM isn't misleading?
quote:When does this happen? You know when? When most people try to hit the real deal graphite driver shafts.
What about downright wrong equipment for that golfer?
quote:It does to me.
Again, that doesn't make the practices of OEMs defensible.
quote:Fine, then 88.75%
And stop it with this "majority" bullshite. That's simply anything over half.
Posted on 2/7/19 at 10:20 am to AlxTgr
quote:So you aren't even reading my posts. I listed the company and shafts already.
I don't know that this has ever been done. Who did this and what shaft models were involved?
quote:Would you consider it overcharging if a company like Apple took the exact same phone from last year, scraped off the 8 and put 10 so they could charge a higher price while at the same time the lowered the price of the phones still branded with 8? How do you not understand this?
How can you say it's overcharging?
quote:Another example I already explained. When companies make a shaft called the Aldila Rogue Silver with two versions or the Evenflow Blue with two versions and that version isn't listen when choosing the shaft, how is the buy supposed to know if he's getting the real deal or the stock/made-for? How many people even realized two existed when the names and paint are the exact same?
What does this even mean?
quote:You are so fricking obtuse. When someone gets fit into something (a good golfer who wants/needs the real deal) and tries to order it themselves and gets fooled into the stock that has the same name and paint. It's pretty straight forward.
When does this happen? You know when? When most people try to hit the real deal graphite driver shafts.
quote:11.25% of driver purchases is still thousands every year. If you include all OEMs and all golfers, it's in the hundreds of thousands. Glad you're cool with that.
Fine, then 88.75%
Posted on 2/7/19 at 2:43 pm to ell_13
quote:I can't believe you're so angry over a simple disagreement.
You are so fricking obtuse.
Posted on 2/7/19 at 3:01 pm to AlxTgr
Assigning an emotion, especially one that’s not true, to my post isn’t going to prove any of your terrible arguments.
Posted on 2/7/19 at 9:45 pm to jpggpj
1000% go get fitted. It'll change your game.
Posted on 2/7/19 at 10:12 pm to Tigersonfire
Just one datapoint from my experience to provide some insight, I got fitted at club champion last year, just a driver fitting. They start off just warming you up with your current driver and then getting some baseline reAdings off your better hits. I was swinging 109-111 with a high spin rate, high launch angle and a 1.42 smash factor. This was using a store bought Callaway alpha 815 with “stiff” flex shaft. I had just played on a tournament (the fun kind) and hit it well, exceptionally straight but too high of a launch angle and the wind was killing me.
The fitter decided to go straight to the stiffest shaft he had, forget what it was called, but put it on my existing head. My next three hits all had a lower launch angle, lower soon rate, and 1.48 or 1.49 smash factor. For those who don’t know (as I didn’t) the smash factor is the ball speed divided by the the club head speed. A 1.50 is considered optimal.
The projected distances on the launch monitor jumped from the 270-280 range to the 290-300 range. From there we tried different shafts in various weights and stiffnesses and other technical stuff I didn’t understand until he was happy with the top 2 then we started trying different heads. For me the Taylor made m3 440 with the tour spec speeder was the winner. I went in with a bias toward Callaway but I couldn’t hit the rogue straight. I also spin it too much for the long G10 (according to him).
After a week or so I got the new driver in and was amazed at how much more penetrating the flight is and I hit some of them stupid far. The twist face seemed to forgiving as well. The kicker is that the shaft cost almost as much as the head, so I couldn’t afford to get fitted for fairway woods or irons...but I’m truly a believer now in the difference the right shaft can make.
The fitter decided to go straight to the stiffest shaft he had, forget what it was called, but put it on my existing head. My next three hits all had a lower launch angle, lower soon rate, and 1.48 or 1.49 smash factor. For those who don’t know (as I didn’t) the smash factor is the ball speed divided by the the club head speed. A 1.50 is considered optimal.
The projected distances on the launch monitor jumped from the 270-280 range to the 290-300 range. From there we tried different shafts in various weights and stiffnesses and other technical stuff I didn’t understand until he was happy with the top 2 then we started trying different heads. For me the Taylor made m3 440 with the tour spec speeder was the winner. I went in with a bias toward Callaway but I couldn’t hit the rogue straight. I also spin it too much for the long G10 (according to him).
After a week or so I got the new driver in and was amazed at how much more penetrating the flight is and I hit some of them stupid far. The twist face seemed to forgiving as well. The kicker is that the shaft cost almost as much as the head, so I couldn’t afford to get fitted for fairway woods or irons...but I’m truly a believer now in the difference the right shaft can make.
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