re: Tony Soprano

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To me, the whole point is that we dont know. WE are the ones who got taken out. Ripped from Tony's world (whether he was too or not). The POINT is that we NEVER know exactly when life will end until it does. Especially in the world that the show created.

The moment in the diner was a routine moment like a myriad others. Was is it a moment of death? MAYBE. The guy in the members only jacket was a routine guy like thousands of others who could come in that diner. Was he the instrument of death? MAYBE.

The MAYBE is the whole POINT.

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I was back and forth with this thought and being pretty sure Tony was dead. And that IS the point of Chase, I'm sure. We get taken away from The Sopranos life and they keep going. He's either going to jail or going to be killed anyway.

But after watching the ending a few times over the past few years, I have been convinced he got killed.

Then reading the link in here, there is no question for me anymore. I will just pose 1 question to those who don't think he's dead or are not sure; why cut to black before seeing Meadow? And why so sudden? Watch the last scene again. It's not a "fade to black", it is an abrupt, sort of misplaced "cut to black" (misplaced if their story was to just fade out).

Anyway, it doesn't bother me if someone thinks he's alive, as I wouldn't mind seeing some more haha.

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to create ambiguity

(only to have it subsequently dismissed by internet analysts )

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I think it's where that theory falls short though. It still would have been created had we seen her walking in or him just looking up and seeing her. Then Black. Everyone would still be asking "what happened next?!"

Instead, very abruptly, and when Tony is still sort of lifting his head up to see who is walking in, "Cut to Black". It's actually perfect. I remember hating it at first

As Chase says, "It's all in there".

Not killed.

Audience was "offed." Ending our relationship with them.

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it is just that those viewers implicitly knew Meadow was supposed to be in that shot (again, this was a predictable change to Tony's POV used throughout that scene) so completely that they fooled themselves into seeing her before the screen went dark.

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Exactly. Had Meadow actually been shown, I would completely go with the "we got removed from their life" theory. It would still have been ambiguous as showing Meadow does not mean Members Only didn't kill Tony anyway.

The fact that he doesn't get to see his daughter one last time speaks volumes.

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Exactly. Had Meadow actually been shown, I would completely go with the "we got removed from their life" theory. It would still have been ambiguous as showing Meadow does not mean Members Only didn't kill Tony anyway.

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They could have removed all doubt through Meadow's reaction. They could have shown her reaction to seeing Tony about to be Shot in the head, then black.

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But the next shot is Tony's POV or the whole scene is wasted the next shot is Tony's POV but he can't see meadow because he's dead

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I understand. I also understand you like it the way ot was filmed. Tony could have looked up and seen Meadow enter, then gotten killed from behind. It could have been more definitive, but the directors wanted it........wait for it......... INCONCLUSIVE.

I believe he is dead. I also believe they could resurrect him if they wanted because we were never shown the dead body.

Habeus Corpus.

I'm way behind in this discussion but so little of that scene is Tony's POV. What makes the last second his POV?

Again, I suspect that Chase has not made any decision on Tony. I know most want to attribute some artistic grand design to the scene but I think, albeit cynically, that the meaning of the ending all depends on whether some influential person with the show needs money in the future or begins to wax nostalgically and wants to do some sort of reunion episode or movie.

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He sees:

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We see.