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re: bonethug's First Saints Talk Mock Draft 1.0.2, now with Paprika
Posted on 4/20/13 at 11:20 pm to bonethug0108
Posted on 4/20/13 at 11:20 pm to bonethug0108
quote:
They hit on one gem(Evans) and one guy that fell from the 1st round because of character issues(Nicks). Strief has been solid for a 7th rounder but not a great player. Bushrod played like a mid rounder so that's not a success, it's breaking even. Tennant was a bust, Brown is on his way(as a 2nd rounder no less), and nobody even remembers Andy Allemen.
I disagree...Strief is a solid RT that is taken for granted as was Bushrod. I'm not saying they are going to find the next probowl LT in the middle rounds..I'm simply saying if we can pull someone out of the middle rounds with the potential to play up to par and hopefully better as most of the OL we have picked in that region I will be content. Strief and Bushrod are both high quality guys that I felt safe for protecting Brees. Brown is yet to be called a bust he has had one bad game in St. Louis and a string of injuries. Marcel Jones could possibly step in and fill in nicely. I'd say I like the Saints chances of finding a quality LT in the middle rounds especially with the deep talent pool for that region in this draft.
1
Posted on 4/20/13 at 11:23 pm to St Augustine
quote:
They've hit on ONE find. This is a very reckless way of looking at building a team IMO. They've also sucked for the most part at drafting defensive players and deciding who the want to give big contracts too. Every situation is different and the sample sizes are too small to make generalizations on.
Eta:see that this was covered. Sorry.
You've actually added the great point that we have recently been poor at drafting defensive talent at the top. Jordan may be the first long time great player they've hit on in forever. And that's still an if(that I think will come true).
So saying we should just draft a lineman in the mid rounds because of history(that is false) and then saying we should draft a defensive player while ignoring history is looney.
I'll echo, "Every situation is different and the sample sizes are too small to make generalizations on."
This post was edited on 4/20/13 at 11:36 pm
Posted on 4/20/13 at 11:31 pm to Bduhon55
Brown also failed horribly on that last play against GB. 
(not a serious point)
But to say Strief and Bushrod are high quality is being generous. They are serviceable(go look at their combined pressures and sacks and look at league averages). A healthy J. Brown and Stinchcomb were true pro bowlers.
We need to get back to that level as Brees ages or we'll see more happy feet, sacks, and horrible ints like we have seen under the Bushrod/Strief reign.
And C. Brown at RT may be an slight upgrade over Strief(not saying much). Brown at LT is a downgrade from Bushrod, and a downgrade from serviceable is trouble. And, as mentioned, he is often injured.
I'll share optimism about Jones as he has the tools, but as someone pointed out he has seemed to be injury prone so we can't rely on him(yet).
If the Saints had a 2nd rounder I'd agree with your optimism about passing over a top 3 LT, but I think all the serviceable or better LTs will be gone before 75. There are plenty of RTs though(which we don't truly need).
(not a serious point) But to say Strief and Bushrod are high quality is being generous. They are serviceable(go look at their combined pressures and sacks and look at league averages). A healthy J. Brown and Stinchcomb were true pro bowlers.
We need to get back to that level as Brees ages or we'll see more happy feet, sacks, and horrible ints like we have seen under the Bushrod/Strief reign.
And C. Brown at RT may be an slight upgrade over Strief(not saying much). Brown at LT is a downgrade from Bushrod, and a downgrade from serviceable is trouble. And, as mentioned, he is often injured.
I'll share optimism about Jones as he has the tools, but as someone pointed out he has seemed to be injury prone so we can't rely on him(yet).
If the Saints had a 2nd rounder I'd agree with your optimism about passing over a top 3 LT, but I think all the serviceable or better LTs will be gone before 75. There are plenty of RTs though(which we don't truly need).
This post was edited on 4/20/13 at 11:33 pm
Posted on 4/20/13 at 11:48 pm to bonethug0108
quote:
If the Saints had a 2nd rounder I'd agree with your optimism about passing over a top 3 LT, but I think all the serviceable or better LTs will be gone before 75. There are plenty of RTs though(which we don't truly need).
I never said I wanted pass on a top 3 LT. If one of the top 3 is there that would be my first choice. The thing I was referring to was the notion of moving up in the first round to get one. Moving up would require more picks and possibly a player; I don't feel comfortable giving up any picks this year as we already dont have a second rounder.
Posted on 4/20/13 at 11:56 pm to Bduhon55
That's where I disagree with most. I think more impact would be had if we can get Johnson at 10 than if we stayed put(extremely doubtful Johnson is there) or moved back(unless that yields an early to mid 2nd rounder). No position we take would be as impactful as a top flight LT no matter how many players we add(unless we hit on a gem but you can't rely on that).
This post was edited on 4/20/13 at 11:58 pm
Posted on 4/20/13 at 11:57 pm to St Augustine
quote:
I'd be willing to bet that our guys have just as big an impact as the two projects in Mingo and Jordan.
That's just it. It's a bet. We don't know what our guys will do at OLB. We also don't know what our 1st rounder will do at OLB. However, I think it's safe to think that Jones, Mingo, or Jordan are capable of being better players than what we currently have.
quote:
two projects
I agree they will have a learning curve to figure out but the talents there. Do you think next year is the only year to make a SB run? I don't. I think we have multiple years to win a SB. That's why I view the OLB pick as an investment.
Posted on 4/21/13 at 12:04 am to SSHellfighter
No I think we have 2 for sure as we are before we have to shuffle the offense a good bit. Colston and Moore will both be well over 30 and aren't the best at getting separation as is. Sproles will be in his 30s and PT will be right there as well . We will definitely have to put a bit more talent around Brees either on the oline or on the outside as his skills will decrease a bit. That's why the idea of getting a 5 year starter at LT is so appealing to me Right now.
Posted on 4/21/13 at 12:35 am to bonethug0108
What's our ammo in this trade? Our first and next year's draft?
Posted on 4/21/13 at 12:41 am to monroesaintsfan
quote:
Strief and Bushrod are both high quality guys that I felt safe for protecting Brees
Those guys are both junk.
Posted on 4/21/13 at 1:15 am to monroesaintsfan
quote:
What's our ammo in this trade? Our first and next year's draft?
Looking at this:
LINK
It takes almost exactly our 1st(15), 3rd(75), and 5th(144). The value is 1299 to 1300.
Another possibility would include using next year's 2nd with a 1st round swap, likely getting their 97th overall pick(3rd round compensatory pick).
This favors the Titans a bit still, but that's often the cost of moving up(assuming our 2nd next year is worth the median for 2nd rounders; even if it's deemed less I think the Titans still come out slightly favorable).
This may be more palatable to some here because we don't lose picks this year and actually gain one, but I prefer the 3rd and 5th route.
@LSU Nguyener, while I agree it's a WTF to see them called high quality, it's just as WTF to me seeing them called junk. Firmly mid grade beef to my eyes.
This post was edited on 4/21/13 at 1:21 am
Posted on 4/21/13 at 2:55 am to bonethug0108
quote:
takes almost exactly our 1st(15), 3rd(75), and 5th(144). The value is 1299 to 1300.
I still find that to be way too high when the defense needs revamping. That would leve us with what? 2 picks this year?
Posted on 4/21/13 at 4:16 am to Bduhon55
It would leave us with a 4th and a 6th(and a potential second 4th-5th from an Ivory trade).
And honestly unless we hit a gem there's no one in the 3rd round or later that would make a significant impact any way. Who do you see at that point that's going to come in and start?
That's the same question I ask about Jones or whatever OLB people are clamoring for. There's potential a drafted OLB could start but it's far from a guarantee.
In the first, a LT would be an immediate starter, as would a WR, with a safety possibly replacing Jenkins(better chance than an OLB replacing what we have already). A corner could potentially be the new nickel with a chance to start next year with Greer maybe leaving.
All this talk of revamping and people forget the corner, olb, and de we signed. Sure more could be done but not past round 2(and without a 2nd that leaves us 1 pick).
And honestly unless we hit a gem there's no one in the 3rd round or later that would make a significant impact any way. Who do you see at that point that's going to come in and start?
That's the same question I ask about Jones or whatever OLB people are clamoring for. There's potential a drafted OLB could start but it's far from a guarantee.
In the first, a LT would be an immediate starter, as would a WR, with a safety possibly replacing Jenkins(better chance than an OLB replacing what we have already). A corner could potentially be the new nickel with a chance to start next year with Greer maybe leaving.
All this talk of revamping and people forget the corner, olb, and de we signed. Sure more could be done but not past round 2(and without a 2nd that leaves us 1 pick).
Posted on 4/21/13 at 8:03 am to bonethug0108
quote:
The Saints usually have a very different board from most teams.
Can't argue with that. Considering the number of first round underachievers we've drafted, maybe they need to go main stream.
Posted on 4/21/13 at 12:06 pm to bonethug0108
quote:
It would leave us with a 4th and a 6th(and a potential second 4th-5th from an Ivory trade).
There is no way this trade would be worth it. Giving up that many picks is the absolute last thing they should do.
Use the pick at 15 depending on who is available or tarde back.
Posted on 4/21/13 at 3:57 pm to SSHellfighter
quote:
And honestly unless we hit a gem there's no one in the 3rd round or later that would make a significant impact any way. Who do you see at that point that's going to come in and start?
Terron Armstead OT Arkansas-Pine Bluff
Kyle Long OT Oregon (O)
Jamie Collins LB Southern Mississippi
Da’Rick Rogers WR Tennessee Tech
Robert Alford CB Southeastern Louisiana
Brandon Williams DT Missouri Southern State
David Bahktiari OT Colorado
Phillip Thomas FS Fresno State
Bacarri Rambo FS Georgia
Chris Faulk OT LSU
David Amerson CB North Carolina St.
Darius Slay CB Mississippi St.
Posted on 4/21/13 at 8:19 pm to Chad504boy
quote:
Did we trade down?
Not far enough. We need to get multiple 5th round selections. That's where dreams are made!
Posted on 4/21/13 at 9:57 pm to Suntiger
quote:
It would leave us with a 4th and a 6th(and a potential second 4th-5th from an Ivory trade).
No way man...I would be highly upset if this were to happen. I would be glad to get a quality LT, but to only have 2 maybe 3 more picks would be devastating. This defense needs work and you wont do it with a 4th and 6th. I would take my chances with a 1st, 3rd, 4th, 5th, and 6th.
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