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re: Legit question: How will the Saints overcome cap problems?

Posted on 2/1/13 at 11:47 am to
Posted by TigerBait1127
Houston
Member since Jun 2005
47336 posts
Posted on 2/1/13 at 11:47 am to
quote:

in real money Brady's below market contract is far less impactful towards the patriots salary cap and towards the construction of their team than Drews deal is.


please explain how this works.

Show me ONE SEASON where Brees has had a higher cap hit than Brady

quote:

Facts are facts Brady accepted a below-market deal for the good of his franchise,


Brady's extension made him the highest paid player in the NFL...
-Brees wouldn't have had the holdout in that situation

The reason the contracts are getting big is due to the fact that the salary cap is setting to drastically increase, right when the Saints get hit by Brees'. So one could argue that Brees' contract is more cap friendly
This post was edited on 2/1/13 at 11:50 am
Posted by WiskyMike
Member since Nov 2012
156 posts
Posted on 2/1/13 at 11:49 am to
Well obviously it hasn't happened yet because Drew is just entering the second year of his new contract (And because Brady's current pay structure is obviously timed how it has been timed).
This post was edited on 2/1/13 at 11:51 am
Posted by TigerBait1127
Houston
Member since Jun 2005
47336 posts
Posted on 2/1/13 at 11:51 am to
I added on to it

quote:

I fully expect Brees to restructure at the request of Loomis/Benson as he wants to win as badly as anybody in the NFL


when players restructure, they just get their backloaded money immediately. Restructuring is almost always better for the player

quote:

(And because Brady's current deal is obviously very heavily frontloaded).


no, it was backloaded, just like Brees'. Brady's current contract was the largest in the NFL when it was signed. Brees' contract increases when the salary cap increases. HE doesn't become the highest paid player in the nfl until 2015, and there will be plenty of other contracts signed by then. Flacco and Ryan are looking for $100 million, and then you have Brady and Rodgers with new contracts coming up
This post was edited on 2/1/13 at 11:56 am
Posted by blueslover
deeper than deep south
Member since Sep 2007
22792 posts
Posted on 2/1/13 at 12:05 pm to
thx for covering that baitman

As ya said, players don't restructure to their detriment unless they are in a restructure or get cut scenario. Restructures most frequently accommodate teams need for cap relief now at the cost of pushing some cap money forward through bonuses.
Posted by DoubleDown
New Orleans, Louisiana
Member since Oct 2008
12848 posts
Posted on 2/1/13 at 12:07 pm to
You also lost a decent amount of really good players too. In my opinion, that was one of the main reasons you guys slipped up this year - not because of SP.

We'll find out this upcoming year though.
Posted by blueslover
deeper than deep south
Member since Sep 2007
22792 posts
Posted on 2/1/13 at 12:22 pm to
quote:

that was one of the main reasons you guys slipped up this year

just curious, which ones do ya have in mind specifically? I looked trying to find them...

Didn't think Grubbs from Nicks was a big loss and a was a big win cap-wise.

Meachem? 14 catches, 14.8ypc, 2 TDs in SD Joe Morgan 10 catches, 37.9ypc, 3 TDs

Porter? Even more dinged in Denver than he was here. Only started 4 games and lost his job to Chris Harris.

Can't mean Abrayo Franklin or Shaun Rogers fo sho. Hicks definitely has the upside in front of him.

Leigh torrence couldn't even catch on anywhere else

I found one maybe... Dunbar. He might have been a better filler when Lofton was injured. He had a solid year in STL at WLB. I don't think this would have even been one though if Hawthorne would have been healthy and played at WLB.
Posted by TigerBait1127
Houston
Member since Jun 2005
47336 posts
Posted on 2/1/13 at 1:19 pm to
quote:

thx for covering that baitman



I basically learned most of my cap knowledge from your posts over the past few years

Losing Nicks last year sucked, but blaming Grubbs for any of our issues would be silly.

Morgan > Meachem. Henderson got older. We had a lot of injuries on the offensive side of the ball this year
Posted by geauxtigers87
Louisiana
Member since Mar 2011
25183 posts
Posted on 2/1/13 at 1:38 pm to
Posted by DoubleDown
New Orleans, Louisiana
Member since Oct 2008
12848 posts
Posted on 2/1/13 at 2:04 pm to
quote:

Didn't think Grubbs from Nicks was a big loss and a was a big win cap-wise.

Meachem? 14 catches, 14.8ypc, 2 TDs in SD Joe Morgan 10 catches, 37.9ypc, 3 TDs

Porter? Even more dinged in Denver than he was here. Only started 4 games and lost his job to Chris Harris.

I do. Nicks and Grubbs were a decent loss I thought. Take cap info out of it (which is the obvious reason it had to happen) but it's still a loss.

Same with Porter - he always seemed to make INTs when needed. Same with Meachem. Obviously not your best but still pretty decent.

The other guys you mentioned I was not really considering. However, you guys have to look at both angles to the differences between last year and this year.
In short, don't expect just because SP is coming back that you're going to win the NFC South. You could - but it won't SOLELY be because SP is back, unlike what most seem to think across the city.

I hope y'alls dreams are crushed again by midseason next year as well!
Posted by geauxtigers87
Louisiana
Member since Mar 2011
25183 posts
Posted on 2/1/13 at 2:05 pm to
Posted by Suntiger
BR or somewhere else
Member since Feb 2007
32858 posts
Posted on 2/1/13 at 2:49 pm to
quote:

I do. Nicks and Grubbs were a decent loss I thought. Take cap info out of it (which is the obvious reason it had to happen) but it's still a loss.


We lost Nicks and gained Grubbs, who played really well this year. That's a push.


quote:

Same with Porter - he always seemed to make INTs when needed. Same with Meachem. Obviously not your best but still pretty decent.


I think Porter was a big loss. He might not play 16 games, but he was going to play 6-8 games and play well. Who knows, better coverage against Atlanta that second game or San Fran or Green Bay, and we don't lose those games and are in the hunt for a playoff spot.


quote:

I hope y'alls dreams are crushed again by midseason next year as well!


I hope y'all pay Matt Ryan $120 million dollars and it takes him another five years to get a playoff win.
Posted by TigerBait1127
Houston
Member since Jun 2005
47336 posts
Posted on 2/1/13 at 3:19 pm to
quote:

Same with Porter - he always seemed to make INTs when needed.


was it his 1 per season since 2009?

2011: 1 interception on the year in a blowout against Detroit
This post was edited on 2/1/13 at 3:20 pm
Posted by adono
River Ridge
Member since Sep 2003
7307 posts
Posted on 2/1/13 at 4:51 pm to
quote:

Those will get you close to the projected cap, maybe not even under though. I thought Loomis did great with what he had to work with last year- maybe his best ever. This year will be an even larger challenge though. Certainly the toughest cap situation since '06.


That's pretty much what Jim Miller said. In fact, Miller said Loomis is the best in the business when it comes to managing the cap. The thing that hung in the air like a fart after a eating at a cabbage buffet was Miller's final comment: (paraphrasing) Loomis can roll some money forward and make some cuts but there's still going to be a shortfall somewhere down the road that will present major problems.

If the cap isn't increased (which isn't going to happen since there was a lockout to get it where it is), the Saints and every team paying their QB $15+ a year will have to be lucky in the draft to contend. The 49ers, Seahawks and Redskins are in great position to make a run the next few years...until their QB wants "Brees" type money or they get crippled (the Redskins may already fall in this category).
Posted by blueslover
deeper than deep south
Member since Sep 2007
22792 posts
Posted on 2/1/13 at 6:06 pm to
quote:

the Saints and every team paying their QB $15+ a year will have to be lucky in the draft to contend.


Parity is so tight in the NFL and there's enough talent here that a turnaround back to 12-13 wins isn't any stretch.

Luck or skill in the draft is always essential. Keys to getting where the franchise is now (vs. pre '06) was built on getting a #1 WR in the 7th Rd, the top guard in the NFL in the 4th Rd, a starting LT in the 4th Rd, another dominant guard in the 5th Rd, an all world punter kickoff guy in 5th Rd, a top TE in the 3rd Rd, etc. That isn't even addressing the number of UDFAs that have filled positions well.

They roll the obligation forward in effort to pay it when you have some breathing room. It does take discipline and pain to keep the ship afloat though. You can't keep defraying it forever.
Posted by Suntiger
BR or somewhere else
Member since Feb 2007
32858 posts
Posted on 2/1/13 at 6:24 pm to
quote:

there's still going to be a shortfall somewhere down the road that will present major problems.


I think its pretty common knowledge at this point that every team has a three to four year window with a good cap number, one year of iffy cap numbers (last year for us) and one year of cap hell (this coming up year)

That's what I've seen most teams doing anyway.
Posted by Hurricane Mike
Member since Jun 2008
20059 posts
Posted on 2/7/13 at 2:00 pm to
Last year we were in no such situation
Posted by blueslover
deeper than deep south
Member since Sep 2007
22792 posts
Posted on 2/7/13 at 2:10 pm to
were at $113mil pre 2012. But that was facing the Brees deal, Colston re-signing, a new guard needed, and MLB thumper addition.

Graham might have to be put off until after this year. The franchise tag is always available if need be. If the football gods shined on us Charles Brown would be our new LT. It could be but we haven't seen enough of him to think that. If no, it will take a Bushrod or other UFA OT deal or a 1st or 3rd Rd for a LT starter.
Posted by alajones
Huntsvegas
Member since Oct 2005
34451 posts
Posted on 2/7/13 at 2:13 pm to
quote:

In Loomis i trust!
This may be a dumb question, but wasn't Loomis the GM in charge when we went 20 million over the cap?
Posted by blueslover
deeper than deep south
Member since Sep 2007
22792 posts
Posted on 2/7/13 at 2:18 pm to
Loomis quote from other thread-

"Well, it's not a mess. ... It's tight, though. Let's not kid ourselves. It's tight, and we've got some work to do, but it's things that we could navigate through. We've navigated them before, not just here but when I was with the Seahawks. We have years when we have tight caps. And look, these caps, they run in cycles where you're right up against it and then you're not, particularly when you have a good team. So we're on the cycle where we're going to be up against it. We're not up against it, we're over it pretty significantly. So we've got some work to do."
LINK
Posted by DownHome
Below the Equator
Member since Jan 2012
10057 posts
Posted on 2/7/13 at 2:28 pm to
I willing to bet that Loomis already has most of this figured out. I think in the next few weeks we will start seeing what he has start playing out with player releases and contract renegotiations.

I choose to not to worry about it. In Loomis I trust.
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