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re: If you go back in time and kill yourself, what happens? A movie board discussion
Posted on 11/28/12 at 12:08 pm to OMLandshark
Posted on 11/28/12 at 12:08 pm to OMLandshark
quote:This is another reason why if tiem travel were possible, it would have to mean everything has already ahppened that will happen. Either you assume EVERY time you travel back in time you reset everything, so there are numerous alt timelines running around, or you have to assume that nothing you do can alter anything that will happen, because it has already happened and has to happen that way.
A slight modification may not seem like much, but what if it leads to your father thrusting at a different time when he impregnates your mother? You will cease to either exist or immediately turn into a completely different individual. This chain reaction makes traveling back through time risky.
There are way to many random things that can happen, like weather, sex of a baby, someone forgetting to do something one day, etc.
One good example of that is South Park in Go God Go. Where even the tiniest change Cartmen made to the past resulted in a different future (present), or you have Time Machine, where no matter what he tried to do to prevent the future from happening, and the past from happening the way it did, he couldn't.
In conclusion, to assuem time travel is possible, you have to either assume
a. Each time you travel, you create and alt timeline and an alternate universe essentially
or
b. Nothing you do will change anything, because everything that will or has happened, has to happen that way and will happen that way.
This post was edited on 11/28/12 at 12:09 pm
1
Posted on 11/28/12 at 12:31 pm to alajones
quote:
Even to assume time travel is possible, you have to assume that everything that will happen has already happened.
Not necessarily. You assume time is static because our understanding of the past is static. The very assumption of travelling back in time assumes that the past cannot be static (unless the traveler is there only as an intangible entity, being unable to interact in any way with the world while they are in another time). Thus if it's not static, it must be malleable to some extent.
My thought is that time is fluid. You can disrupt a stream by throwing a rock in it, but it eventually heals itself (for lack of a better term) as it moves on. For the OP's paradox (or the one I mention which is a bit more pointed) there are various events that could come from that, but it's all theoretical. Personally, I like my theory on it because "every action creates a new timeline" is just too messy for me.
Posted on 11/28/12 at 12:37 pm to Bard
quote:But logical. I would say it doesn't even need an action.
because "every action creates a new timeline" is just too messy for me.
If we were to acknowledge that there are infinite numbers of things that can happen in nature and that they are not on a preset course or pattern, then we have to acknowledge that there is no way mathematically or physically that those things can happen again the same way. The sex of babies can be different, weather can be different, numerous things are on a random and unpredetermined course. Unless you are Presbyterian. So either you reset everything everytime you travel back in time, or everything is predetermined already to happen in a certain way.
This post was edited on 11/28/12 at 12:45 pm
Posted on 11/28/12 at 12:42 pm to alajones
quote:
Each time you travel, you create and alt timeline and an alternate universe essentially
A slight tweak to this idea is that you are not actually time traveling. You would be traveling to one a myriad of infinte parallel universes that are all ready in existence. Since the number of universes would be assumed to be infinite, there would be a universe currently at whatever point in time that you might want to travel. Again, you aren't creating a universe by time traveling. The alternate already existed.
A separate thought that relates to the butterfly/domino effect mentioned earlier is an idea of historical momentum. A small change may have a seemingly large effect in the short term(decades/centuries), but the changes will be smoothed out in the longer term (millennia). This was a concept used in Asimov's The End of Eternity. e.g. If Hitler was prevented from being born, the historical scene was right for someone to play a similar role in history. You can play around with this idea on your own. The greater the historical trend; the better this idea holds.
This post was edited on 11/28/12 at 12:44 pm
Posted on 11/28/12 at 12:45 pm to alajones
quote:
But logical.
Is it? Or is it just an easier explanation?
Posted on 11/28/12 at 1:39 pm to alajones
A bit off topic, but most people that don't believe in traveling to the past in time, do not dismiss that it still may be possible to jump to the future.
Seems that it could be more plausible, because merely jumping ahead 100's or 1000's of years does not create near as many "paradoxes", if any, of traveling back to the past. If anything it could be just an advance form of cryogenic preservation and being thawed out years into the future.
see: "Go God Go" southpark 2 part episode.
Seems that it could be more plausible, because merely jumping ahead 100's or 1000's of years does not create near as many "paradoxes", if any, of traveling back to the past. If anything it could be just an advance form of cryogenic preservation and being thawed out years into the future.
see: "Go God Go" southpark 2 part episode.
Posted on 11/28/12 at 1:50 pm to musick
quote:
A bit off topic, but most people that don't believe in traveling to the past in time, do not dismiss that it still may be possible to jump to the future.
If we can ever figure out how to travel at the speed of light, we can travel into the future. But you wouldn't be able to go back
Posted on 11/28/12 at 3:15 pm to Tiger1242
quote:
If we can ever figure out how to travel at the speed of light, we can travel into the future. But you wouldn't be able to go back
Einstein theorized that if you moved fast enough to break the speed of light, you could move forward into Time until you reached the end. There, time would just start over (he thought of time as a really, really, reeeeeeeally big endless circle).
Posted on 11/28/12 at 3:44 pm to Bard
I never bought into Einstein's speed of light theories.
Posted on 11/28/12 at 3:56 pm to alajones
quote:
I never bought into Einstein's speed of light theories.
Elaborate, please.
Posted on 11/28/12 at 6:58 pm to Peazey
The notion that you will be as big as the universe if you get to light speed.
This post was edited on 11/28/12 at 6:59 pm
Posted on 11/28/12 at 7:59 pm to Tiger1242
My thoughts go along with what else has been said. Either:
A.) Time travel has never been invented. I'm sure there are still bad people in the world in the future....they'd find a way to frick it up for everyone.
B.) Changing the past creates a new/parallel set of events. If you go back and kill your parents before you're born, then it would created the paradox of "You just killed the people that made you, so now you technically can't kill them because you never existed....so they should still be alive."
The only way this works is if it creates a divergent timeline. You can go back and kill your parents, but your timeline would remain unchanged. You were still born. You still went back in time. The new timeline, like a putting a fork in a river, would carry on without your existence, but you'd never know how it affected the world because you would still be stuck in your own timeline.
THE BIG QUESTION IS.....what if this has been done millions of times and we're just in one of the alternate timelines? What if the very first one was The Garden of Eden and some idiot time traveled back and fricked everything up, creating a new timeline, and so on and so forth, until we're sitting here in version 1,234,268,432 of the main universal timeline?
What if Adolf Hitler was never meant to be born (supposed to be a girl conceived a month earlier), but people trying to correct previous events in time, altered our timeline....and look who we got instead. Crazy stuff.
A.) Time travel has never been invented. I'm sure there are still bad people in the world in the future....they'd find a way to frick it up for everyone.
B.) Changing the past creates a new/parallel set of events. If you go back and kill your parents before you're born, then it would created the paradox of "You just killed the people that made you, so now you technically can't kill them because you never existed....so they should still be alive."
The only way this works is if it creates a divergent timeline. You can go back and kill your parents, but your timeline would remain unchanged. You were still born. You still went back in time. The new timeline, like a putting a fork in a river, would carry on without your existence, but you'd never know how it affected the world because you would still be stuck in your own timeline.
THE BIG QUESTION IS.....what if this has been done millions of times and we're just in one of the alternate timelines? What if the very first one was The Garden of Eden and some idiot time traveled back and fricked everything up, creating a new timeline, and so on and so forth, until we're sitting here in version 1,234,268,432 of the main universal timeline?
What if Adolf Hitler was never meant to be born (supposed to be a girl conceived a month earlier), but people trying to correct previous events in time, altered our timeline....and look who we got instead. Crazy stuff.
Posted on 11/28/12 at 8:11 pm to Gr8t8s
quote:
What if Adolf Hitler was never meant to be born (supposed to be a girl conceived a month earlier), but people trying to correct previous events in time, altered our timeline....and look who we got instead. Crazy stuff.
And what if in actuality Hitler didn't exist until someone today went back in time to try and fix something else, and created Hitler.
So we all remember learning about Hitler in school, been to the Holocaust Museum ect... But actually we all did something else but someone changed history so we remember it as always knowing about Hitler
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