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re: Why oh why can't we have a J. J. Watt on D?
Posted on 10/9/12 at 8:22 am to whodatfan
Posted on 10/9/12 at 8:22 am to whodatfan
quote:
Why oh why can't we have a J. J. Watt on D?
Because for the most part dynamic play makers go higher than we have been able to draft. The only recent draft where in hindsight they passed on better prospects was when they chose Jenkins over Cushing and Matthews. Every other draft the defensive play makers were already off the board, usually by 11 or 12 at the latest.
1
Posted on 10/9/12 at 8:25 am to TigerinATL
Well, maybe this coming draft? 
Posted on 10/9/12 at 8:34 am to Brettesaurus Rex
quote:
Just goes to show. We don't need a complete overhaul on D. Get yourself one difference maker like a Watt and that can make all the world of difference.
I wouldn't say that. The Texans have been drafting defensive players for years to try to become the anti-colts in their division. Look at their first round picks since 2004.
2004 10th overall Dunta Robinson Cornerback
2004 27th overall Jason Babin Defensive end
2005 16th overall Travis Johnson Defensive tackle
2006 1st overall Mario Williams Defensive end
2007 10th overall Amobi Okoye Defensive tackle
2008 26th overall Duane Brown Offensive tackle
2009 15th overall Brian Cushing Linebacker
2010 20th overall Kareem Jackson Cornerback
2011 11th overall J.J. Watt Defensive End
2012 26th overall Whitney Mercilus Outside Linebacker
Posted on 10/9/12 at 8:37 am to Meateye
quote:
No No No Im a Saints fan buddy.
I didn't mean that. I meant that not just Texan fans thought it was a mistake to draft Watt.
Lots of people thought they should have picked up a DB.
Posted on 10/9/12 at 8:46 am to Suntiger
Yep, they have done a great job building their defense through the draft IMO
It took GUTS to take Mario Williams #1 overall in the draft, considering the massive Reggie Bush hype and do not forget there was a Texas push to draft Vince Young at that slot as well....David Carr wasn't exactly lighting the world on fire....
It took GUTS to take Mario Williams #1 overall in the draft, considering the massive Reggie Bush hype and do not forget there was a Texas push to draft Vince Young at that slot as well....David Carr wasn't exactly lighting the world on fire....
Posted on 10/9/12 at 8:48 am to noonan
quote:
Micky Loomis is an idiot, Spags sucks, Payton is overrated, Brees isnt that good, the game has changed, we'll never win anything, why dont we run it, where is Ivory?
sig quote worthy
amazing how those come in like a plague, then a few days pass, and you don't see those posters anymore
right on about it not only being Watt. Texas has made some serious personnel moves on D.
There has been plenty of personnel moves here. They just haven't been as sterling in results. If we draft one pass rusher like they pickon offense (Graham 3rd, Evans 4th, Nicks 5th, Colston 7th, etc) we would be set.
Posted on 10/9/12 at 9:15 am to blueslover
at some point Loomis and co. have to shoulder some blame. I give them credit, they have tried to address the defense in the draft - but have done a POOR job at evaluating talent IMO
Outside of Porter and maybe Will Smith....many of their defensive picks have flat-lined
Dont forget about people like Courtney Watson
Outside of Porter and maybe Will Smith....many of their defensive picks have flat-lined
Dont forget about people like Courtney Watson
Posted on 10/9/12 at 9:24 am to whodatfan
I'll tell you why... the FO drafts players based on raw talent instead of the totality of the player. There is a reason that the defense is deplorable; there a lot of "athletes" on defense and not enough football players.
That's why there are so many blown coverages and assignments. Football IQ is not being taken into consideration enough in the draft.
That's why there are so many blown coverages and assignments. Football IQ is not being taken into consideration enough in the draft.
Posted on 10/9/12 at 9:27 am to Shankopotomus
quote:
at some point Loomis and co. have to shoulder some blame. I give them credit, they have tried to address the defense in the draft - but have done a POOR job at evaluating talent IMO
For general managers Loomis isn't much on the personnel evaluation side at all. He is a bean counter that evolved to contract and salary cap manager. You can see the night and day difference of the kind of players drafted from Haz to Payton. This is cuz the picks are more the result of the rest of the staff than Loomis.
Payton himself is an offensive guru. I'm sure no pick is taken without his blessing. To a large degree he prolly leans strongly on the DCs preference tho. PRob was clearly a GW choice for example. It was a slight push as a pick but he was taken for his heavy man coverage experience.
Overall they haven't been nearly as good in the defensive picks tho. I count that more against the scouting staff and the DCs than Payton or Loomis.
Posted on 10/9/12 at 9:34 am to blueslover
Well, if Spags sticks around, hopefully he can snag up some defensive talent in next years draft/free agency.
Posted on 10/9/12 at 9:52 am to whodatfan
I just want us to draft the next stud white LBer
or DE. The white guys who are hyped up are never busts. damnit
or DE. The white guys who are hyped up are never busts. damnit
Posted on 10/9/12 at 9:54 am to Suntiger
noteworthy list suntiger
using beisbol analogy what I notice though is there are a couple of homerun hitters but the batting average is nothing great at all...
2004 10th overall Dunta Robinson Cornerback- NFL starter but not elite, Texans let him walk and ATL was criticized for overpaying- a double
2004 27th overall Jason Babin Defensive end- such a bust they moved him after one season. 5 teams later he finally turned it on in 2010- a strikeout for TX
2005 16th overall Travis Johnson Defensive tackle- certified bust, traded for a 6th in '09 & now out of football- strikeout
2006 1st overall Mario Williams Defensive end- has performed up to #1 standards. Interesting that they didn't think he was worth crazy money tho- homerun
2007 10th overall Amobi Okoye Defensive tackle- certified bust, released outright, on NFL fringe with hicago- strikeout
2008 26th overall Duane Brown Offensive tackle- solid if unspectacular- double to stretch triple
2009 15th overall Brian Cushing Linebacker- who we would have picked if Jenkins was gone. Defensive rookie of the Year boom- homerun
2010 20th overall Kareem Jackson Cornerback- taking over this year, looks like a double at least
2011 11th overall J.J. Watt Defensive End- special/elite- homerun
2012 26th overall Whitney Mercilus Outside Linebacker- TBD
using beisbol analogy what I notice though is there are a couple of homerun hitters but the batting average is nothing great at all...
2004 10th overall Dunta Robinson Cornerback- NFL starter but not elite, Texans let him walk and ATL was criticized for overpaying- a double
2004 27th overall Jason Babin Defensive end- such a bust they moved him after one season. 5 teams later he finally turned it on in 2010- a strikeout for TX
2005 16th overall Travis Johnson Defensive tackle- certified bust, traded for a 6th in '09 & now out of football- strikeout
2006 1st overall Mario Williams Defensive end- has performed up to #1 standards. Interesting that they didn't think he was worth crazy money tho- homerun
2007 10th overall Amobi Okoye Defensive tackle- certified bust, released outright, on NFL fringe with hicago- strikeout
2008 26th overall Duane Brown Offensive tackle- solid if unspectacular- double to stretch triple
2009 15th overall Brian Cushing Linebacker- who we would have picked if Jenkins was gone. Defensive rookie of the Year boom- homerun
2010 20th overall Kareem Jackson Cornerback- taking over this year, looks like a double at least
2011 11th overall J.J. Watt Defensive End- special/elite- homerun
2012 26th overall Whitney Mercilus Outside Linebacker- TBD
Posted on 10/9/12 at 10:29 am to Hoodoo Man
quote:
Sometimes it seems like luck of the draw with drafting these defensive players
Seems like we have a lot of shitty luck and teams like the Texans have a lot of good luck. Hmmmm.....
Posted on 10/9/12 at 10:32 am to SaintLSUnAtl
I also think its easier to find these elite pass rush guys with a 3-4. I almost wish we'd just bite the bullet and switch.
Posted on 10/9/12 at 11:33 am to infantry1026
quote:
the FO drafts players based on raw talent instead of the totality of the player. There is a reason that the defense is deplorable; there a lot of "athletes" on defense and not enough football players.
We haven't consistently drafted highly and we haven't taken lots of defensive players in early rounds. That being said, when we do, our picks are not usually considered "reaches".
And that was the point I was making about the Texans. When you draft 9 years worth of defensive players in the first round over 10 years. You'll end up with at least 3-4 good players. Especially if you are picking in the top 15.
Posted on 10/9/12 at 11:49 am to SaintLSUnAtl
quote:
Seems like we have a lot of shitty luck and teams like the Texans have a lot of good luck. Hmmmm.....
Consider we rarely pick high and they were picking high for a while. Also consider they haven't drafted as well as you think. Watt and Cushing were excellent, but other than that they've been meh. Well, they also drafted Williams. That one was good but he isn't even on the team anymore.
Posted on 10/9/12 at 8:56 pm to F machine
quote:
Why oh why can't we have a J. J. Watt on D?
Because Roger took away our draft pick
Posted on 10/10/12 at 8:38 am to Breesus
quote:
Also, Micky Loomis is an idiot, Spags sucks, Payton is overrated, Brees isnt that good, the game has changed, we'll never win anything, why dont we run it, where is Ivory?
The summary of LSUZombie's last 10 posts.
Posted on 10/10/12 at 1:04 pm to blueslover
quote:
Overall they haven't been nearly as good in the defensive picks tho. I count that more against the scouting staff and the DCs than Payton or Loomis.
I would agree with this. Loomis doesn't really have a hand in anything but making the call and signing the guys.
Payton obviously has final say in everything, like you've mentioned, but the DC is ultimately going to be the one who decides what he wants to play with.
Spags is going to need a few years to get guys that fit into what he's doing.
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