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re: Band of Brothers vs The Pacific
Posted on 5/16/19 at 5:32 pm to CarRamrod
Posted on 5/16/19 at 5:32 pm to CarRamrod
quote:I don’t really think so
thats a very very very tough question.
Only one forex made us think about using the A bomb. The 1st Marines faced absolute hell
When the marines are scared to invade somewhere, that’s a place I don’t want to be
This post was edited on 5/16/19 at 5:37 pm
Posted on 5/16/19 at 5:43 pm to JOJO Hammer
I don't think this is even a debate. The marines in the Pacific clearly had a more difficult job
Posted on 5/16/19 at 6:54 pm to WestCoastAg
It's really not debatable...and this is not a "service pride" thing because Army, Navy, and Marines in The Pac Theater all caught hell with the Japs.
RIP John Basilone.
RIP John Basilone.
Posted on 5/16/19 at 8:46 pm to JOJO Hammer
Man frick that cold bullshite having your toes and nose freeze off. That being said of course i would chose Europe instead of a mostly uninhabited island.
Posted on 5/16/19 at 9:18 pm to CarRamrod
quote:
saying that it as pure genius that Truman Eisenhower and the top leaders in the US allowed the Emperor to remain because it we would have kill him we would still be in a "war" with Japan
That was definitely the smart move, allowing the Emperor to remain on the throne (although he was compelled to give up his "divine" status and he also became more of a constitutional monarch). That was one thing that the U.S. compromised on in the end, after demanding unconditional surrender. Allowing the Emperor to remain was small potatoes when one considers what we got in return.
A close advisor to General Douglas MacArthur, Brigadier General Bonner Fellers, knew a great deal about Japanese history and culture, and advised MacArthur thusly:
"An absolute and unconditional defeat of Japan is the essential ingredient for a lasting peace in the Orient. Only through complete military disaster and the resulting chaos can the Japanese people be disillusioned from their fanatical indoctrination that they are the superior people, destined to be overlords in Asia. Only stinging defeat and colossal losses will prove to the people that the military machine is not invincible and that their fanatical leadership has taken them the way to disaster . . . There must be no weakness in the peace terms. However, to dethrone or hang the Emperor would cause tremendous and violent reaction from all Japanese . . . Hanging the Emperor would be comparable to the crucifixion of Christ to us. All would fight and die like ants. The position of the militarists would be strengthened immeasurably. An independent Japanese army responsible only to the Emperor is a permanent menace to peace. But the mystic hold the Emperor has on the people . . . properly directed need not be dangerous. The Emperor can be made a force for good and peace provided the military clique [around him] . . . is destroyed."
How the Emperor became human and MacArthur became divine
This post was edited on 5/16/19 at 9:22 pm
Posted on 5/16/19 at 10:11 pm to JOJO Hammer
The fighting in the Pacific series at least shows the Marines had it harder (whether that's true or not) the fighting in the Pacific series is more brutal and the show claims to have done tons of research.
I wouldn't have wanted to be in the Pacific; island hopping from Malaria to Malaria and an enemy you can't even see - burrowed into the Island like moles.
Plus when we jumped into the Pacific out of necessity, the Japanese Navy was far superior to ours.
The Zeros were far superior planes to what we were using. In fact when the US made raids on Japan's carriers they often had 90% casualty rate.
But then the bravery and heroism and miracle of Midway happened.
Midway was the best thing and worst thing to happen to the US. In under just 1 year after Pearl Harbor the US had decimated the Japanese "greatest Navy in the World" but in doing so - made Japan fight a defensive dig-in battle for the rest of the war that made the US take the Empire piecemeal.
I wouldn't have wanted to be in the Pacific; island hopping from Malaria to Malaria and an enemy you can't even see - burrowed into the Island like moles.
Plus when we jumped into the Pacific out of necessity, the Japanese Navy was far superior to ours.
The Zeros were far superior planes to what we were using. In fact when the US made raids on Japan's carriers they often had 90% casualty rate.
But then the bravery and heroism and miracle of Midway happened.
quote:
The U.S. lost one carrier, 145 planes and 307 men. Japan lost four aircraft carriers, a heavy cruiser, 291 planes and 4,800 men, according to the U.S. Navy and to an account by former Japanese naval officers in ``Midway: The Battle That Doomed Japan, the Japanese Navy's Story.''
Midway was the best thing and worst thing to happen to the US. In under just 1 year after Pearl Harbor the US had decimated the Japanese "greatest Navy in the World" but in doing so - made Japan fight a defensive dig-in battle for the rest of the war that made the US take the Empire piecemeal.
This post was edited on 5/16/19 at 10:13 pm
Posted on 5/16/19 at 11:27 pm to JOJO Hammer
quote:
So who had it worse?
This is like getting a bunch of midgets into a room and asking them who has the biggest dick.
They all got it bad
This post was edited on 5/17/19 at 2:44 pm
Posted on 5/17/19 at 12:07 am to biglego
Seems like Europe and Africa were more tactics while Pacific was just a blood bath
Posted on 5/17/19 at 12:36 am to JOJO Hammer
Just a couple of points I want to make:
- There were a lot more Army than Marines in the Pacific, and they suffered mightily (2X as many KIA). I hope people don't forget that.
- That being said, I tend to think The Pacific is a better, more sophisticated, and more nuanced product than Band of Brothers. The Pacific captured the psychological and emotional aspects of combat far better than Band of Brothers did, and Band of Brothers in retrospect can come off a little campy and story-boarded.
- There were a lot more Army than Marines in the Pacific, and they suffered mightily (2X as many KIA). I hope people don't forget that.
- That being said, I tend to think The Pacific is a better, more sophisticated, and more nuanced product than Band of Brothers. The Pacific captured the psychological and emotional aspects of combat far better than Band of Brothers did, and Band of Brothers in retrospect can come off a little campy and story-boarded.
Posted on 5/17/19 at 1:01 am to JOJO Hammer
quote:No French girls in the Pacific. Marines in the Pacific had it worse.
So who had it worse?
Posted on 5/17/19 at 4:29 am to BoomBoomBoom
Isn’t HBO making one about the 8th Air Force?
Posted on 5/17/19 at 6:14 am to JOJO Hammer
I would say the Pacific simply due to the isolation.
What about the Army? The Marines weren't alone in the Pacific.
quote:
The Marines in the Pacific face hot temps and no water at times.
What about the Army? The Marines weren't alone in the Pacific.
This post was edited on 5/17/19 at 6:15 am
Posted on 5/17/19 at 8:54 am to JOJO Hammer
As a show BoB was better and overshadowed Pacific. However, the soldiers and marines in the Pacific had it way worse. My dad served in both theatres, and he said fighting in the Pacific was way worse. He did not elaborate, because he never gave specifics about his time in the service.
Posted on 5/17/19 at 9:19 am to LSUDonMCO
quote:
As a show BoB was better and overshadowed Pacific.
Agreed, although I got to meet Tom Hanks at the premiere of the first episode of "The Pacific" when it played at the WWII Museum.
quote:
My dad served in both theatres, and he said fighting in the Pacific was way worse. He did not elaborate, because he never gave specifics about his time in the service.
Salute to your dad!
I remember that scene where the war in Europe was over and Easy Company was watching the newsreels of the Pacific war. They were silent. I'm sure it's that they didn't want to go on to fight more, but maybe also because it looked so different from what they experienced.
I had two old veterans as neighbors when I first moved into my house in the 90's. One was in a tank division in Europe during WWII, the other stormed the beaches on Okinawa. Both didn't mind talking about their experiences, and let's just say the stories of the Pacific were much more horrendous.
This post was edited on 5/17/19 at 9:20 am
Posted on 5/17/19 at 9:32 am to LSUDonMCO
quote:
My dad served in both theatres, and he said fighting in the Pacific was way worse. He did not elaborate, because he never gave specifics about his time in the service.
My Dad was in the Pacific, and my Uncle was in Europe. My Dad ate coconuts and C-Rations and fought typhoons and the Japanese. My Uncle at least had French girls and wine from towns liberated from the Germans.
Posted on 5/17/19 at 10:54 am to JOJO Hammer
Send me to Europe.
Cuz frick Mosquitoes, frick sand, frick jungles, and frick an enemy that fights to the death of the last man.
Cuz frick Mosquitoes, frick sand, frick jungles, and frick an enemy that fights to the death of the last man.
Posted on 5/17/19 at 11:28 am to mizzoubuckeyeiowa
MacArthur is responsible for a lot of that misery. If he had allowed the Navy and Marines to island hop their way more. A lot more islands would have been bypassed and cut off. But he had to make up for his poor showing on the outset.
ETA:
The biggest stroke of luck was the Japanese refused to fight like Americans and Germans with subs.
ETA:
The biggest stroke of luck was the Japanese refused to fight like Americans and Germans with subs.
This post was edited on 5/17/19 at 11:42 am
Posted on 5/23/19 at 6:59 pm to ZappBrannigan
The Battle of Peleliu, which was a savage bloodbath, really didn't need to be fought, in retrospect. The threat from Japanese air power in the Palau Islands really wasn't as great as feared. MacArthur wanted them taken to protect his flank during the invasion of the Philippines, but the Palau Islands probably could have been bypassed and isolated to "wither on the vine" so to speak.
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