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Started By
Message
The fear mongering and propaganda around NN needs to end
Posted on 11/21/17 at 8:13 pm
Posted on 11/21/17 at 8:13 pm
quote:
Unfortunately, the unhinged understanding of "net neutrality" has since won the day. And it has fueled average people's nightmares about what the future of the Internet holds—even though it looks a lot like what we've always enjoyed. (After all, the OIO regulations were only proposed in 2015.)
The core of these fears is a future where consumers are forced to purchase tiered package for Internet access of specific websites, or face slow service or even a complete blackout. Consider this image macro, which is popular on sites like Reddit and Twitter. The meme evokes a world where ISPs would be free to filter traffic through various "fast" and "slow" lanes that could be accessed by special fees.
Of course, we did not see ISPs engage in this kind of behavior in the pre-OIO history of the internet—which is to say, for the entire history of the internet. But ironically, the OIO actually creates incentives for ISPs to do just that.
Reason
quote:
The FCC makes the papers sound one-sided, when they are not. One paper in the American Economic Review in 1987 showed that discriminatory pricing (by an upstream monopolist selling to downstream competitors) would often tend to be against large successful incumbents—in this case, against established edge providers—not struggling new entrants, which is the opposite of the pro-net neutrality narrative. Moreover, the Commission ignored another paper of mine in Information and Economic Policy in 2007 that concluded net neutrality would harm applications that did not require high speeds and was more likely to harm welfare than improve it.
quote:
FCC data show that as of 2016, 97 percent of census blocks had more than one provider offering at least 10 Mbps download speeds. I think people confuse provision of an idealized service at an idealized price with the actual provision of service.
Forbes
This post was edited on 11/21/17 at 8:15 pm
Posted on 11/21/17 at 8:14 pm to seawolf06
RELEASE THE REDDIT TALKING POINTS!!!!
*BARRRROOOOO BARRROOOOOO*
ETA: Also, INB4 the "tiered service" meme.
*BARRRROOOOO BARRROOOOOO*
ETA: Also, INB4 the "tiered service" meme.
This post was edited on 11/21/17 at 8:15 pm
Posted on 11/21/17 at 8:23 pm to seawolf06
quote:
Unfortunately, the unhinged understanding of "net neutrality" has since won the day. And it has fueled average people's nightmares about what the future of the Internet holds—even though it looks a lot like what we've always enjoyed. (After all, the OIO regulations were only proposed in 2015.)
From 2005..
As a result, the Commission has jurisdiction necessary to ensure that providers of telecommunications for Internet access or Internet Protocol-enabled (IP-enabled) services are operated in a neutral manner. Moreover, to ensure that broadband networks are widely deployed, open, affordable, and accessible to all consumers, the Commission adopts the following principles:
• To encourage broadband deployment and preserve and promote the open and interconnected
nature of the public Internet, consumers are entitled to access the lawful Internet content of
their choice.
• To encourage broadband deployment and preserve and promote the open and interconnected
nature of the public Internet, consumers are entitled to run applications and use services of their
choice, subject to the needs of law enforcement.
• To encourage broadband deployment and preserve and promote the open and interconnected
nature of the public Internet, consumers are entitled to connect their choice of legal devices that
do not harm the network.13
• To encourage broadband deployment and preserve and promote the open and interconnected
nature of the public Internet, consumers are entitled to competition among network providers,
application and service providers, and content providers.14
LINK
Posted on 11/21/17 at 8:24 pm to seawolf06
Think of the kids college funds!!!
Posted on 11/21/17 at 8:32 pm to seawolf06
Still after a year of reading about this crap, no clue as to what it's about or how it may/may not affect an old man who uses a desktop and a Android phone.
Speak English comrades.
Speak English comrades.
Posted on 11/21/17 at 8:36 pm to seawolf06
quote:
Of course, we did not see ISPs engage in this kind of behavior in the pre-OIO history of the internet
We did actually. In 2008 Comcast was caught throttling BitTorrent traffic saying that they were slowing it down due to "network congestion." Comcast initially lied and said they weren't doing it. However, after some savvy subscribers proved they were doing it, Comcast came out and said "OK, OK, we were lying. We were throttling BitTorrent but only because people are downloading too much."
Soon thereafter Comcast began implementing data caps (something that previously was unheard of on the Internet). After Comcast did it, Cox, Charter, AT&T, Verizon and all the rest followed suit and implemented caps. Suddenly they all were having mysterious "congestion" issues that only data caps would fix! Weird huh? (Anyone who understands how the Internet works would understand that data caps do nothing to solve prime time bandwidth issues).
Bottom line is these ISP's will do whatever they can to make extra $$$. I don't blame them -- it's what they do. When a corporation has unlimited power and NO COMPETITION, they tend to become abusive. And that's the real problem here: there is no competition with these natural monopolies. The only way to deal with it is to regulate them.
Posted on 11/21/17 at 8:40 pm to AUstar
quote:
When a corporation has unlimited power and NO COMPETITION
All ISPs have competition. You just may not like the quality of the competition.
I prefer a Ferrari. But a Honda does the same job. If slower and not as sexy.
quote:
And that's the real problem here: there is no competition with these natural monopolies.
ISPs aren't natural monopolies.
Posted on 11/21/17 at 8:42 pm to Centinel
quote:
I prefer a Ferrari. But a Honda does the same job. If slower and not as sexy.
Ferrari doesn't compete against a Honda Civic. It competes against other top-end vehicles.
Just like Comcast and Hughes Net aren't competitors except in your imagination
Posted on 11/21/17 at 8:44 pm to Centinel
quote:
ISPs aren't natural monopolies.
High fixed costs, high barriers to entry, prices go down as market share expands.. it pretty much meets every definition of a natural monopoly.
Posted on 11/21/17 at 8:44 pm to AUstar
I do think there is too much gloom and doom over the issue especially since it was a recent regulation. Internet thrived for 20 years without the regulation and when various companies abused the system, their customers bit them on the arse.
I refuse to be anti-regulation / government just when it suits me. Thus I have to me fine with NN dying.
If it bites me on the arse, ya'll can throw pies at my face on that day.
As many folks on here often say the markets will sort things out. This isn't the day of Cable having a 100% monopoly.
If Cox does start throttling Netflix and Youtube, I'll be out front of their office with torches and pitchforks after I clean the egg / pie / rotten tomatoes from my face.
I refuse to be anti-regulation / government just when it suits me. Thus I have to me fine with NN dying.
If it bites me on the arse, ya'll can throw pies at my face on that day.
As many folks on here often say the markets will sort things out. This isn't the day of Cable having a 100% monopoly.
If Cox does start throttling Netflix and Youtube, I'll be out front of their office with torches and pitchforks after I clean the egg / pie / rotten tomatoes from my face.
Posted on 11/21/17 at 8:51 pm to bmy
quote:
Ferrari doesn't compete against a Honda Civic. It competes against other top-end vehicles.
Ferrari competes for your car buying dollars.
Some people are willing to pay for Gig Fiber. Some are ok with paying for 5MBs Basic Internet.
quote:
Just like Comcast and Hughes Net aren't competitors except in your imagination
Does one not transmit IP packets and the other does so?
The only difference is speed and price.
Just like Ferrari vs Honda.
Posted on 11/21/17 at 8:52 pm to TigerMyth36
quote:
I do think there is too much gloom and doom over the issue especially since it was a recent regulation. Internet thrived for 20 years without the regulation and when various companies abused the system, their customers bit them on the arse.
I refuse to be anti-regulation / government just when it suits me. Thus I have to me fine with NN dying.
If it bites me on the arse, ya'll can throw pies at my face on that day.
As many folks on here often say the markets will sort things out. This isn't the day of Cable having a 100% monopoly.
If Cox does start throttling Netflix and Youtube, I'll be out front of their office with torches and pitchforks after I clean the egg / pie / rotten tomatoes from my face.
Bingo
If the ISPs suddenly start colluding to throttle traffic, I'll be the first one calling for the anti-trust collusion smack down from Uncle Sam.
Until that day, regulating what "might" happen is statist fear mongering bullshite.
Posted on 11/21/17 at 8:56 pm to seawolf06
When ISPs have already proposed fast lanes
There is no need for fear mongering and propaganda
The ISPs provided the ammo themselves
There is no need for fear mongering and propaganda
The ISPs provided the ammo themselves
Posted on 11/21/17 at 9:00 pm to seawolf06
Few months ago I got a message on my pc from my isp telling me I was close to exceding my data usage, wtf! I never had a limit before Obama and his stupid commie net neutrality! Capping my internet so they can give it to the bums.
Thank you President TRUMP for making things right again!
Thank you President TRUMP for making things right again!
Posted on 11/21/17 at 9:18 pm to Centinel
quote:
The only difference is speed and price.
Kind of a dumb oversimplification since speed in particular can effectively make large numbers of tasks unusable. 28k dialup might as well be a different product than fiber altogether.
Posted on 11/21/17 at 9:20 pm to Centinel
quote:
RELEASE THE REDDIT TALKING POINTS!!!!
I was quite happy to find other liberty minded folks there defending this move for the right reasons.
Posted on 11/21/17 at 9:25 pm to seawolf06
quote:
the unhinged understanding of "net neutrality" has since won the day
You ain't lying. At the end of the day, net neutrality is about little more than the government raising everyone's prices by forcing ordinary Internet users into subsidizing bandwidth hogs.
Posted on 11/21/17 at 9:27 pm to StraightCashHomey21
quote:
When ISPs have already proposed fast lanes
Proposed. Not enacted.
quote:
There is no need for fear mongering and propaganda
That's all supporters of NN have so far.
quote:
The ISPs provided the ammo themselves
No they haven't.
Posted on 11/21/17 at 9:27 pm to Seldom Seen
quote:
Seldom Seen
Best troll in the business
Posted on 11/21/17 at 9:33 pm to Ham Malone
Google supports NN.
Therefore I am against it.
I think.
Therefore I am against it.
I think.
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