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re: NYT's ISIS expert: ISIS likely behind LV attack.

Posted on 10/6/17 at 1:40 am to
Posted by buckeye_vol
Member since Jul 2014
35309 posts
Posted on 10/6/17 at 1:40 am to
quote:

She did her job of keeping the fear alive without completely hemming herself in. Her premise was bullshite, as you pointed out, but she knows that popular sentiment and general fear will get her a bump and publishers everywhere love shite like this.
Your posts have made me think about it a little more.

And while I don't have a major issue what what she said, or her general conclusion, but I’m growing more critical of what she didn't say, even disregarding bus demographic profile. Specifically, she should have provided:

1. How many of the 47 that were not false, were verified as true?
2. How many attacks were by recent converts, unknown to anybody, including any evidence of Islamic faith whatsoever?

Unless there is an example, the second one doesn't pass any logical test. If one is committing an act based on a religious belief, one would expect at least some evidence of that religious belief.

But I'm also wondering if it's possible that he decided he wanted to commit this act, and decided to research in preparation. Well if he wanted to commit an act that is usually committed by Islamic terrorists, then it seems logical to reseach the methods of those terrorists.

But without the belief system, and/or doing it for that cause, then even if used ISIS for his research, it still wouldn't be Islamic Terrorism.
Posted by MrCarton
Paradise Valley, MT
Member since Dec 2009
20231 posts
Posted on 10/6/17 at 1:50 am to
quote:

And while I don't have a major issue what what she said


My major beef is really simple. Saying that ISIL is responsible for something that a person does when ISIL had no operational involvement i.e. Planning, funding, mentoring, logistics etc is at best erroneous and at worst dishonest. It's like saying that the Braves are responsible for the fish I caught last weekend because I sympathize with them. We wouldn't apply this logic universally. Most everyone rejects this logic when it appears in civil cases concerning video game violence.

Using her logic, virtually any Muslim terrorist who had viewed an ISIS video can be claimed as an agent of ISIS. This makes them seem far more operationally capable than they are. Seeming more effective than they are is a critical recruiting tool of terrorist organizations and insurgencies. It a doctrinal principle of insurgent and terrorist strategy. She is carrying water for ISIS by using this criteria. Good for clicks tho.

ISIL has made thousands of claims for attacks and actions that are complete or partially fabrications. Even their execution videos contain deliberately misleading content,though they are responsible for the killings. Lying is what they do. They are very good at propaganda and their entire goal is to motivate others to join them. Which means they need to appear effective and terrifying. It's ridiculous that a journalist who thinks herself so knowledgeable of them hasn't stumbled upon the hundreds of obvious examples of exaggeration and deliberately misleading ISIS claims. She's confirming her bias and writing attention grabbing stories in doing so.
This post was edited on 10/6/17 at 1:52 am
Posted by MrCarton
Paradise Valley, MT
Member since Dec 2009
20231 posts
Posted on 10/6/17 at 1:56 am to
quote:

But I'm also wondering if it's possible that he decided he wanted to commit this act, and decided to research in preparation. Well if he wanted to commit an act that is usually committed by Islamic terrorists, then it seems logical to reseach the methods of those terrorists.

But without the belief system, and/or doing it for that cause, then even if used ISIS for his research, it still wouldn't be Islamic Terrorism.


The issue for me is that ISIS claimed him as a "soldier of the Islamic state",not just that he was Muslim.

If he converted and committed the act, that doesn't mean he is an ISIS agent. If they had no direct link with him, then their claim is only partially true: he converted to Islam.

Allowing them to claim him as an agent without proof is directly beneficial to them. There is no honest reason to do this.
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