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Why is Holiday at anything over $20 million so unpalatable?
Posted on 3/29/17 at 7:38 pm
Posted on 3/29/17 at 7:38 pm
The reason I ask is because in the first quarter of this game he already has 2 blocks and has successfully defended Dirk and Noel on switches. I don't think you want Holiday playing SF/PF on defense, but he usually handles himself exceptionally well when he has to switch on to SF/PFs.
I think most of us would be happy if we could trade Hill for Otto Porter Jr. who will likely also get more than $20 million net year. Both Porter and Holiday are multi-position defenders that can score 15 a game. I know there's a premium on SF over SG because you need someone to defend LeBron/Kawhi/etc. but is a lineup with Holiday/Hill that much different than say Moore/Porter?
I think most of us would be happy if we could trade Hill for Otto Porter Jr. who will likely also get more than $20 million net year. Both Porter and Holiday are multi-position defenders that can score 15 a game. I know there's a premium on SF over SG because you need someone to defend LeBron/Kawhi/etc. but is a lineup with Holiday/Hill that much different than say Moore/Porter?
Posted on 3/29/17 at 7:39 pm to TigerinATL
Holiday should be kept. There is no way the franchise will let him leave.
Posted on 3/29/17 at 7:41 pm to TigerinATL
quote:
Moore/Porter
Haha some people on this board would then say we were going to bring in Booker at SG to pair with Porter.
This post was edited on 3/29/17 at 7:43 pm
Posted on 3/29/17 at 8:12 pm to TigerinATL
I don't care. It's not my money (well, I guess the tickets i buy accoun5 for a tiny %, but I'm not paying him or signing his checks)...
Posted on 3/29/17 at 9:03 pm to TigerinATL
Holiday/Hill is a better lineup than Moore/Porter
some doubts about Holiday at 25-30M/annually, but i think you're right about looking at him as a wing more than PG. that makes a difference
Porter at the same price on this team (w/o a Wall (or even a Holiday) to find him and a Beal to draw attention) doesn't seem like a great fit. not too sure he's got the game to create for himself.
maybe Moore/Porter if they believe Davis and Cousins are ready to make a leap as playmakers, but they would still be lacking off the bounce juice they would likely need for spring basketball
some doubts about Holiday at 25-30M/annually, but i think you're right about looking at him as a wing more than PG. that makes a difference
Porter at the same price on this team (w/o a Wall (or even a Holiday) to find him and a Beal to draw attention) doesn't seem like a great fit. not too sure he's got the game to create for himself.
maybe Moore/Porter if they believe Davis and Cousins are ready to make a leap as playmakers, but they would still be lacking off the bounce juice they would likely need for spring basketball
Posted on 3/29/17 at 9:28 pm to TigerinATL
quote:1. Not factoring in the new cap
Why is Holiday at anything over $20 million so unpalatable?
2. His defense can't be seen in a boxscore
Posted on 3/29/17 at 9:30 pm to shel311
Holiday played a great game. 18 7 5 in 7/12 shooting. He should really drive to the paint more tho.
Posted on 3/29/17 at 9:41 pm to TigerinATL
its not. He will at least get that money (deservedly so), but shouldn't get max player money (although I actually think someone will offer that to him). Holiday's versatility at PG/SG on offense and defensive skills to guard three positions make him an asset on most teams.
I'm just hoping he/Cousins/AD work together this offseason shave a couple mil between the 3 of them to keep the cap down (I can hope right?)
I'm just hoping he/Cousins/AD work together this offseason shave a couple mil between the 3 of them to keep the cap down (I can hope right?)
This post was edited on 3/29/17 at 10:16 pm
Posted on 3/29/17 at 9:46 pm to TigerinATL
Agreed. Though, even being one of the biggest pro-Jrue posters here, I had some doubts about him during that awful stretch. He was legit terrible, and it lasted a bit longer than a typical drought. Plus he's too passive, and I don't think that will ever change. But he's looking VERY healthy (he's been dunking like once every 3 games, WATCH OUT VINCE CARTER) and his shot has returned. His defense was pretty great for stretches tonight, and I really think that he can defend most SF's in the NBA. But like you said, players that defend 3's frequently have to switch onto 4's.
This post was edited on 3/29/17 at 10:04 pm
Posted on 3/29/17 at 10:02 pm to THRILLHO
I still think Jrue is a pg at heart and just needs to learn how to start games at the position. He's way too passive and doesn't use pnr early on to get the mismatch he thrives on. It affects his confidence for the entire game it seems if he's coming out cold. He's doing better sitting back early and then picking his spots
Posted on 3/29/17 at 10:15 pm to TigerinATL
If Holiday is a SG he's respected much more than if he's a PG. Holiday is a top 5-10 SG, probably closer to 5 than 10.
Posted on 3/29/17 at 10:21 pm to Epic Cajun
quote:
If Holiday is a SG he's respected much more than if he's a PG. Holiday is a top 5-10 SG, probably closer to 5 than 10.
I know respect wouldn't make a difference, but I wonder if he would outright prefer playing more off ball. Would seeing this "experiment" change the teams that would be interested in him in FA?
Posted on 3/29/17 at 10:24 pm to THRILLHO
quote:
know respect wouldn't make a difference,
I just meant respect as in, he's clearly top 10 at SG, where as people would argue whether or not he's even top 15 at PG.
I still feel like most free agent teams would go after him as a PG.
Posted on 3/29/17 at 10:52 pm to Epic Cajun
quote:
If Holiday is a SG he's respected much more than if he's a PG. Holiday is a top 5-10 SG, probably closer to 5 than 10.
So just for shits and gigs I put together my top 10 SG to see where Jrue would fit as a SG
1) Harden
2) Butler
3) DeRozan
4) Thompson
5) McCollum
6) Beal
7) Wade
8) Middleton
9) Oladipo
10) Danny Green
I personally think Jrue slides somewhere after Beal but before Oladipo. So top 5-10 SG would be dead on for me.
also I'm sure many will disagree with these rankings. relax i threw this together in the last 5 mins
Posted on 3/30/17 at 6:02 am to DeionDeion
Don't think Harden qualifies as a 2 guard anymore.
Posted on 3/30/17 at 8:45 am to shel311
quote:
2. His defense can't be seen in a boxscore
The eye test tells me he hasn't played elite defense this year but he's right behind Beverley in DRPM
Posted on 3/30/17 at 9:28 am to DeionDeion
IMO, he's only behind Thompson, DeRozan, Beal, and McCollum. Bulter is playing SF this season, and Harden is a PG this season. And, he's better defensively than all of those guys outside of Thompson.
Posted on 3/30/17 at 9:33 am to LSUSaintsHornets
quote:
The eye test tells me he hasn't played elite defense this year but he's right behind Beverley in DRPM
The eye test tells me he's one of the best defenders in the league. He has consistently played great defense on bigs when he switches. Ive seen him stop Gasol and Porzingas in the post multiple times. There are only a handful of guys under 6'6" that can do that.
He's not $30m. I'd walk from that. He's worth $20 on a longer deal, maybe $25 on a shorter deal. His defense is great and his offense can be at times. Too often his offense is non existent, and he sometimes let's his shitty offensive games affect his defense.
I'm hoping we can get him for 4/90 at the most.
I think if you can get a Bledsoe in a trade, or Rubio, or even Mills with the MLE, jrue will be worth the money.
Posted on 3/30/17 at 9:41 am to TeddyPadillac
I'd like to see him getting 25ish and paired with Patty Mills.
Posted on 3/30/17 at 9:45 am to LSUSaintsHornets
quote:
The eye test tells me he hasn't played elite defense this year but he's right behind Beverley in DRPM
He's also 5th overall (number 1 if we're only looking at guards) in expected shooting percentage versus actual shooting percentage when he's guarding the shooter.
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