- My Forums
- Tiger Rant
- LSU Recruiting
- SEC Rant
- Saints Talk
- Pelicans Talk
- More Sports Board
- Fantasy Sports
- Golf Board
- Soccer Board
- O-T Lounge
- Tech Board
- Home/Garden Board
- Outdoor Board
- Health/Fitness Board
- Movie/TV Board
- Book Board
- Music Board
- Political Talk
- Money Talk
- Fark Board
- Gaming Board
- Travel Board
- Food/Drink Board
- Ticket Exchange
- TD Help Board
Customize My Forums- View All Forums
- Show Left Links
- Topic Sort Options
- Trending Topics
- Recent Topics
- Active Topics
Started By
Message
re: Texas AG sued to keep a Bible quote in school. Now he’s troubled by Muslim prayers.
Posted on 3/20/17 at 4:32 pm to buckeye_vol
Posted on 3/20/17 at 4:32 pm to buckeye_vol
quote:
I've argued they both deserve the same accommodation, no more or less. I've stated this numerous times. So stop trying to misrepresent what I said.
As long as anybody else can leave class to pray then there isn't an issue. Of course, a Christian can pray without a single person knowing.
But this is the whole point of what we are talking about. This is the statement you made earlier in the thread. My point is that the schools are NOT giving equal treatment.
You wanted to argue that Christians should not be allowed to pray because there were 90 of them and that would be considered school sponsored. (How in the world you came up with that, I can't imagine)
YOUR point was that 10 Muslims should be allowed to pray in school, but 90 Christians should not.
Now. Did I misrepresent your posts? I can go back and cut and paste if you would like.
When it became a large event, then it became more of a school sponsored event.
No. It did not. In fact, the school tried to stop it until they were brought to court.
Look. My whole point was that the Muslims were given a Prayer room and allowed to leave class for their prayers in school during school hours. I can guarantee you, that if a Christian tried to do this the ACLU and the Freedom From Religion people would shut that down and it would never be allowed. The Muslims are insisting that it be done in NYC, one of the most visible places in the entire world and what do we hear from those organization? Crickets.
So tell me...is it school sponsored if the school provides facilities and time for the students to pray?
If not, do you think there would be an uproar if Christians demanded prayer rooms and to be allowed out of class to pray?
Posted on 3/20/17 at 4:37 pm to DawgsLife
quote:They are given equal opportunities. If one requires the use of it and the other doesn't, then I don't see an issue. I believe policies should be equal access and opportunity, no more and no less. What else can we expect, otherwise we're getting towards the left's equality on outcomes.
As long as anybody else can leave class to pray then there isn't an issue. Of course, a Christian can pray without a single person knowing.
But this is the whole point of what we are talking about. This is the statement you made earlier in the thread. My point is that the schools are NOT giving equal treatment.
quote:No, it any religion is given the same. It's an accommodation (similar to a wheelchair ramp), that one can and commit use. Some may be more likely to use it, but that's not an issue as long as they can go.
So tell me...is it school sponsored if the school provides facilities and time for the students to pray?
This post was edited on 3/20/17 at 4:45 pm
Posted on 3/20/17 at 4:54 pm to buckeye_vol
quote:
They are given equal opportunities. If one requires the use of it and the other doesn't, then I don't see an issue.
Do you know what equal opportunities are? The Christian students wanted to go to a room to pray during a time when other students were texting, reading and socializing and they were denied. The Muslims wanted to go to a room and they were not only granted a room they were allowed to go during class.
That is what you call equal? You would have been wonderful during the 1960's with white and black bathrooms.
quote:
No, it any religion is given the same.
Either you aren't understanding or you refuse ot understand. The Christian group was denied. The Muslim group was granted.
I will ask again....if a Christian group requested a time to pray and a special set aside room on school grounds to pray in during school hours, do you think the ACLU and Freedom From Religion people would be all over it and taking it to court?
Posted on 3/20/17 at 4:58 pm to RedRifle
Our country was founded on Christian values therefore only Christian prayers should be allowed.
Muslims or Satanists didn't form our country so they can be shown the door to that nonsense.
Muslims or Satanists didn't form our country so they can be shown the door to that nonsense.
Posted on 3/20/17 at 4:58 pm to DawgsLife
quote:You're talking about a decision of two different schools thousands of miles apart. And both are now allowed at both schools. I don't know why you're equating the decisions.
The Christian students wanted to go to a room to pray during a time when other students were texting, reading and socializing and they were denied. The Muslims wanted to go to a room and they were not only granted a room they were allowed to go during class.
quote:Holy strawman!
That is what you call equal? You would have been wonderful during the 1960's with white and black bathrooms.
quote:I don't know, but the school in question allows both.
if a Christian group requested a time to pray and a special set aside room on school grounds to pray in during school hours, do you think the ACLU and Freedom From Religion people would be all over it and taking it to court?
I'm not even sure what your issue is at this point. They can both pray, and if the school In Colorado had a Muslims, they could have a big group and sing their songs too.
This post was edited on 3/20/17 at 5:01 pm
Posted on 3/20/17 at 5:01 pm to buckeye_vol
What if a Catholic kid wanted a crucifix at the front so he or she could kneel and properly pray, while doing so aloud?
Would they just be shite out of luck?
The Muslims would consider that blasphemous during their prayer and would raise holy hell.
So whose rights go to the forefront, so to speak? Who gets first dibs on using the room?
Would they just be shite out of luck?
The Muslims would consider that blasphemous during their prayer and would raise holy hell.
So whose rights go to the forefront, so to speak? Who gets first dibs on using the room?
This post was edited on 3/20/17 at 5:03 pm
Posted on 3/20/17 at 5:07 pm to texashorn
quote:In his other private room? Just make sure he brings his own crucifix.
What if a Catholic kid wanted a crucifix at the front so he or she could kneel and properly pray, while doing so aloud?
quote:Nope. He has to bring it though.
Would they just be shite out of luck?
quote:Well they can have multiple rooms, and the students can choose for themsleves. Or text student can choose a different time, if he wants privacy since he doesn't have to pray at the exact same time.
The Muslims would consider that blasphemous during their prayer.
quote:Have multiple rooms, since both would that they probably wouldn't want to hear the other prayer. The school doesn't have to designate the room for each. If not. and if they can't figure it out on their own, then I guess they'll have to put up with it.
So whose rights go to the forefront, so to speak? Who gets first dibs on using the room?
Am I supposed to come to conclusion to support outrage or something like a SJW?
Posted on 3/20/17 at 5:11 pm to buckeye_vol
Nice try, but FAIL.
The principal is saying that everyone's religion is being accommodated in one room, in one 30-minute period, and you are agreeing with that.
To suggest a separate room is hedging and total B.S., but you twist with the wind often.
The principal is saying that everyone's religion is being accommodated in one room, in one 30-minute period, and you are agreeing with that.
To suggest a separate room is hedging and total B.S., but you twist with the wind often.
Posted on 3/20/17 at 5:13 pm to texashorn
quote:OK they can figure it out then.
The principal is saying that everyone's religion is being accommodated in one room, in one 30-minute period, and you are agreeing with that.
quote:To suggest a separate room given your scenario seemed practical, but if they can't have one, then they can figure out.
To suggest a separate room is hedging and total B.S., but you twist with the wind often.
I don't care either way. What am I supposed to outraged about here?
Posted on 3/20/17 at 5:14 pm to buckeye_vol
quote:
I don't care either way.
More B.S. You've been goaltending this entire thread.
Your posts have no substance whatsoever.
Good day, sir.
Posted on 3/20/17 at 5:20 pm to OweO
quote:
So it was cool as long as it involved his religion.
Right. This is what the Bible thumpers never think through. If we're going to have prayers at school functions and Ten Commandments in government buildings etc then eventually some goat fricking Muslim will want his nonsense displayed publically too.
This post was edited on 3/20/17 at 5:21 pm
Posted on 3/20/17 at 5:22 pm to buckeye_vol
quote:
You're talking about a decision of two different schools thousands of miles apart. And both are now allowed at both schools. I don't know why you're equating the decisions.
Ok. Let me explain, then. because the schools are under the same laws concerning this. Also, because nowhere in sight was the ACLU or the Freedom From Religion (Known from now on as the FFR) people to stop the Muslims or to help the Christians. The silence was deafening.
quote:
Holy strawman!
Not at all. Were you not saying both should be treated equally? I am simply pointing out that because both are given facilities does not mean they are equal. One group was given a permanent place dedicated for that groups prayers, while the other group was given a hard time and told they cannot pray.
quote:
I don't know, but the school in question allows both.
Really? I saw nothing about Christians being allowed to walk out of class and pray in a separate and dedicated room for them. Would you mind providing a link, please?
Still sidestepping my question? let me ask again....
if a Christian group requested a time to pray and a special set aside room on school grounds to pray in during school hours, do you think the ACLU and Freedom From Religion people would be all over it and taking it to court?
Posted on 3/20/17 at 5:30 pm to texashorn
quote:I've said this entire thread that they should have the same accommodation; I don't care if they can't figure out how to coexist. That's their problem.
More B.S. You've been goaltending this entire thread.
quote:You continously make up arguments that I've never made. Not so much in this thread, but making up my stances is by definition a lack of substance.
Your posts have no substance whatsoever.
quote:So running off after I access every point in your hypothetical, huh? Should I feign some outrage or make up your viewpoint like you often do?
Good day, sir.
OK fine. I'M MADDDDD!
Posted on 3/20/17 at 5:31 pm to biglego
quote:
Right. This is what the Bible thumpers never think through. If we're going to have prayers at school functions and Ten Commandments in government buildings etc then eventually some goat fricking Muslim will want his nonsense displayed publically too.
Welcome to the party late.
So, I'll ask you. Muslims are being given private prayer rooms set aside on school grounds and allowed to walk out of class to pray. Should this be allowed?
LINK /
LINK
Posted on 3/20/17 at 5:32 pm to DawgsLife
quote:I don't know. I don't speak for them and they don't speak for me. But if Texas wants religion in their schools, then they can have religion in their schools.
if a Christian group requested a time to pray and a special set aside room on school grounds to pray in during school hours, do you think the ACLU and Freedom From Religion people would be all over it and taking it to court?
Posted on 3/20/17 at 5:39 pm to buckeye_vol
quote:
I don't know.
Fair enough. let me help you, then.
LINK
Watch this all the way through, and then tell me.
Posted on 3/20/17 at 5:40 pm to DisplacedBuckeye
quote:I said there was moral degradation. You said that was my opinion. I said that moral standards are different and you responded by saying medical standards are different but not degraded. From my view, there are better and worse moral standards. Degrading morality in this country is the result of moving from a Christian standard to a humanistic standard. The result is moral degradation because the humanistic standard for morality is subjective and prone to negative outcomes due to human nature directing us towards selfishness. In this case, "different" does mean "degrading".
So what? It's sufficient to highlight that your point on moral standards was irrelevant.
quote:Results of moral standards can be observed and people tend to know whether or not the outcomes are favorable or not even if they aren't thinking through their moral code fully.
I don't see morality as a quantifiable numerical value or an eternal absolute. It's a subjective concept that can and does change, like religion.
I believe in an eternal God whose character is represented in His moral law and that moral law is the basis for the Biblical/Christian moral code. Therefore, I believe the Christian moral code is objective since it is based on the character of an eternal and unchanging, upright being and thus is the only "right" one.
quote:Please explain.
Yes it is.
quote:Actually it doesn't. That's why I said the moral law of God. Many wrongfully assume that every law in the Old Testament is a reflection of God's desire for all humanity and wrongfully use such laws as not mixing threads or eating shellfish as an excuse to disregard other laws, however what most people don't understand is the difference between the moral law, the ceremonial law, and the civil law. The moral law is from God's character and is summarized by the ten commandments. The civil and ceremonial laws were specific to the nation of Israel and used as pointers to Christ. They were fulfilled in Christ's death on the cross and thus are not needed any longer. The moral law of God remains and is as it ever was, unchanged.
It does, and it has.
quote:Moral codes are judged by their results. I think it's pretty relevant to list negative outcomes associated with discarding Christian morality.
None of this is relevant.
quote:I inferred it based on your previous statements. You also said in your last message: "I don't see morality as a quantifiable numerical value or an eternal absolute. It's a subjective concept that can and does change, like religion", which seems to imply that that morality cannot be said to improve or degrade since it cannot be quantified. Do you disagree?
I never gave such an opinion.
quote:It's not a standby. Your responses don't seem to align with what I am saying so I'm wanting to ensure that my message is received clearly.
Ah, the old standby.
No, I get it. It's still irrelevant.
quote:That's pretty much my point, but I know you think that of me or what I believe rather than the point that I was making of people being self-centered and not wanting to be compared and judged by a holy God.
What a bunch of self-centered bull shite.
quote:You said that morality is subjective. If that is true, how do you deny that the secularist has no objective morality?
Wrong and wrong.
Since my morality is based on an objective, eternal God, I have a basis to say my morality is objective. You can choose to not believe it but at worst we are equal and at best, my code is right while yours is wrong. A practical application of this is that you have no objective basis to cast judgment on me or what I believe or to say my judgement of your beliefs is "wrong".
quote:Apparently you care enough to condemn it or at least try to prove me wrong. I wonder why you persist in responding if you don't care.
Not sure I've made it clear enough. I don't care what you believe.
quote:How can you say bad exists at all or that there are bad people in the world if morality is subjective? What is bad to one person is good to another, after all. If you have a subjective moral standard (as you do), then all you can do is cast judgement based on how something or someone relates to you only, and even then it's nothing more than just an opinion and has no basis in reality outside of yourself.
Nope. There's a lot of "bad" in this world that is brought about by "bad" people. You choose religion to explain that because it makes sense to you. That's fine, but that doesn't mean it's the correct answer.
I believe that the law of God is written on the hearts of man and that it takes shape in the notion of conscience. Because we are fallen and sinful creatures, we can suppress that truth and even twist it to be whatever we want it to be. We can ignore the truth and embrace a lie and think we're alright for doing it. In a world where there is no objective morality, each person is his own god and no one else can legitimately judge them for what they do or say or think. That boils down to "might makes right", which I believe most people would reject on its face as a legitimate moral code in our "civilized" world. The Christian worldview makes sense of reality and offers an objective lens to view the actions of men through. I urge you to repent and believe in the only one who can save you from the folly of your current worldview.
Posted on 3/20/17 at 5:48 pm to DawgsLife
Gotta go for the evening. For some reason the wife thinks I need to spend some time with her.
Have a good evening Buckeye-Vol. I've enjoyed the civil argument.
(You're wrong, though. Things are not being treated equally!)
Have a good evening Buckeye-Vol. I've enjoyed the civil argument.
(You're wrong, though. Things are not being treated equally!)
Posted on 3/20/17 at 5:51 pm to DawgsLife
quote:
So, I'll ask you. Muslims are being given private prayer rooms set aside on school grounds and allowed to walk out of class to pray. Should this be allowed?
No.
Is this your "gotcha" moment?
Posted on 3/20/17 at 6:10 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
You said that was my opinion.
From my view...
Indeed.
quote:
Results of moral standards can be observed
Not singularly.
quote:
I believe
I'm aware. I also don't care.
quote:
Please explain.
The Bible itself has been cherry-picked. You live your life as if it's absolute truth. 1+1=2.
quote:
The moral law of God remains and is as it ever was, unchanged.
Link that.
quote:
Moral codes are judged by their results.
Not singularly.
quote:
I inferred... seems to imply...
Cool. I still never gave that opinion.
quote:
Your responses don't seem to align with what I am saying
Maybe you're the one missing the point.
quote:
If that is true, how do you deny that the secularist has no objective morality?
Easy enough. I didn't.
quote:
Apparently you care enough to condemn it or at least try to prove me wrong. I wonder why you persist in responding if you don't care.
Also easy. I don't care what you believe. I care how your beliefs impact this country. You can believe any nonsense you like, and I'll never care. The minute you start trying to impose that nonsense on others, I start to care.
It's still minimal. Why do I respond? It's Monday, coyotes aren't coming around, and I'm bored.
quote:
How can you say bad exists at all or that there are bad people in the world if morality is subjective?
Well, I didn't. I said "bad."
quote:
What is bad to one person is good to another, after all.
Indeed. It's almost like we've decided these things as a society.
quote:
I believe
Still don't care.
Popular
Back to top
Follow TigerDroppings for LSU Football News