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re: What are you guys actuall expecting from our rookie?
Posted on 5/20/16 at 5:54 pm to NOFOX
Posted on 5/20/16 at 5:54 pm to NOFOX
I think that's (PHI) a little overboard but you'd definitely get #1 this year and the lakers pic plus a player (okafor likely) maybe two. So the question there is would you trade Davis for Simmons/Ingram and okafor and say saric plus a lottery pick next year (and your own undoubtedly high pick next year)
that's a full on reload if you can draft worth a shite
I'm not going to look it up and see if that's a legal trade, but it's an entertaining thought
that's a full on reload if you can draft worth a shite
I'm not going to look it up and see if that's a legal trade, but it's an entertaining thought
This post was edited on 5/20/16 at 5:58 pm
Posted on 5/20/16 at 6:02 pm to TigerinATL
quote:
f Utah misses the playoffs again and Hayward leaves where will they really be?
an entertaining young team that's in every game because they play defense
and still in the game of thrones if they can get lucky
Hayward is socked in Utah like a tick. He's a freakin matinee idol there. I'd be stunned if he ever left
Posted on 5/21/16 at 9:05 am to cgrand
quote:
I think that's (PHI) a little overboard but you'd definitely get #1 this year and the lakers pic plus a player (okafor likely) maybe two.
Superstars do not get traded. Look at what Min got for Love. AD is 3x the player. PHI would most certainly offer those picks for a potential top 5 player locked up for 5 years on a 25% contract who fits with Embiid and/or Okafor. They could still trade Okafor and have tons of money in FA. You are underestimating the value of a superstar.
Posted on 5/21/16 at 10:02 am to NOFOX
I agree. Davis locked in, even at new cap $, is still a fantastic bargain.
#1, the better pick of Sixers/Lakers next year, and at least one of their recent lotto selections would be the baseline for Davis. They still have swap rights to the Kings top 10 pick next year and an unprotected Kings pick in 2019. If they get a GM or management that actually values draft picks, they could pull in a massive haul
Boston just doesn't have the intriguing young guys, but those Brooklyn picks are still enticing (#3, pick swap next year, and 1st in '18). I also think a Lakers offer with Russell, #2 is an interesting start. Wish they had their pick next year or another interesting young guy. Randle, I guess.
Again, hypothetical world here. Not advocating they should do this, but, if they decide to go Hinkie and burn the motherfricker down, would you even consider any of those 3 offers?
#1, the better pick of Sixers/Lakers next year, and at least one of their recent lotto selections would be the baseline for Davis. They still have swap rights to the Kings top 10 pick next year and an unprotected Kings pick in 2019. If they get a GM or management that actually values draft picks, they could pull in a massive haul
Boston just doesn't have the intriguing young guys, but those Brooklyn picks are still enticing (#3, pick swap next year, and 1st in '18). I also think a Lakers offer with Russell, #2 is an interesting start. Wish they had their pick next year or another interesting young guy. Randle, I guess.
Again, hypothetical world here. Not advocating they should do this, but, if they decide to go Hinkie and burn the motherfricker down, would you even consider any of those 3 offers?
Posted on 5/21/16 at 10:20 am to corndeaux
#1, 2017 pick, Noel, + more for Davis? This is a depressing topic. We should be talking about how we're gonna fill in the roster around him at this point. The more I look at the A/A deals and see them for potentially crippling us, the more it pisses me off. As if it's not shitty enough having no young talent, we are now $15m in dead weight for 3 more years.
Id consider it. I'm higher on Simmons than the majority of this LSU board is and the stars have aligned to potentially find a suitor that could give us ample return. If you can dump Asik in the process that's even more tantalizing.
I don't want Demps anywhere near a rebuild though.
50 mil or so in space?
#1, 2017, Noel, Saric for Davis/Asik?
Can you trade up with a PHI asset to ensure you get Dunn? #6 plus Saric for Dunn?
Dunn/Frazier
Jrue/Evans
Simmons/QPon
Anderson?
Noel/Ajinca
Plus fill in with 32-33m? Would Ryno agree to come back being a full time starter?
One of PHI/LAL would suck next year. You'd go into the 2017 draft with two top 10 picks?
Id consider it. I'm higher on Simmons than the majority of this LSU board is and the stars have aligned to potentially find a suitor that could give us ample return. If you can dump Asik in the process that's even more tantalizing.
I don't want Demps anywhere near a rebuild though.
50 mil or so in space?
#1, 2017, Noel, Saric for Davis/Asik?
Can you trade up with a PHI asset to ensure you get Dunn? #6 plus Saric for Dunn?
Dunn/Frazier
Jrue/Evans
Simmons/QPon
Anderson?
Noel/Ajinca
Plus fill in with 32-33m? Would Ryno agree to come back being a full time starter?
One of PHI/LAL would suck next year. You'd go into the 2017 draft with two top 10 picks?
This post was edited on 5/21/16 at 10:30 am
Posted on 5/21/16 at 10:28 am to cgrand
Are y'all legit talking even in hypotheticals about trading Davis already? This is going to be a long offseason
Posted on 5/21/16 at 10:32 am to quail man
quote:
Are y'all legit talking even in hypotheticals about trading Davis already? This is going to be a long offseason
To me, it's not about this offseason, it's maximizing a return while there's a team that has something to offer us. I don't know if a PHI trade tomorrow can be replicated down the road. You'd basically be taking advantage of Hinkies stockpile and the new directive to not suck.
Posted on 5/21/16 at 11:00 am to corndeaux
quote:
1, the better pick of Sixers/Lakers next year, and at least one of their recent lotto selections would be the baseline for Davis.
that's basically the same thing I proposed
I would consider Simmons or Ingram, a lotto pick next year and okafor/saric or both a fair trade
will never happen obviously
Posted on 5/21/16 at 11:36 am to cgrand
quote:
I would consider Simmons or Ingram, a lotto pick next year and okafor/saric or both a fair trade
That haul would be disappointing on the Pels end. You can squeeze more for a 23 yo, top 10 player, who is under contract for the rest of the decade, than that. Love was expiring and was going to bolt from Minnesota when they traded him. Deron Williams got Favors, a lottery pick, and a late 1st. Deron Williams was also 3 years older, only had 1.5 years left on his deal and was never as good as Davis has been and still can be.
I'd like to see another 1st and maybe a couple of 2nds. I'll even throw Holiday in there, mostly for symmetry.
Again, you're right. It's not gonna happen. But if we're talking #teamblowup, you have to think about moving Davis
Posted on 5/21/16 at 11:41 am to ShamelessPel
quote:
To me, it's not about this offseason, it's maximizing a return while there's a team that has something to offer us. I don't know if a PHI trade tomorrow can be replicated down the road. You'd basically be taking advantage of Hinkies stockpile and the new directive to not suck.
Yep.
This is only a topic because people are talking "blow up."
You can't blow up the roster and rebuild with youth at this point and expect to keep Davis. One, the timeline is incredibly dicey if you sell off all non Davis assets- you are hoping to get a top 3 pick next summer. And two, they don't have the assets to properly rebuild via blow up, unless they trade Davis.
Posted on 5/21/16 at 12:47 pm to corndeaux
Why couldn't you do both?
Say you blow it up and win 30 games next year with Davis. Then, 40. Then 47, then 55. If the upward trajectory is clear and it appears sustainable, why would he want to leave,
In theory, they would be trending up and he would be in his prime with at least two studs just hitting their prime. Doubt many teams would be able to offer better than that
It's why I have always said the goal should be to be great in 2019 with a sustainable long term roster. 2016-17 be damned
Say you blow it up and win 30 games next year with Davis. Then, 40. Then 47, then 55. If the upward trajectory is clear and it appears sustainable, why would he want to leave,
In theory, they would be trending up and he would be in his prime with at least two studs just hitting their prime. Doubt many teams would be able to offer better than that
It's why I have always said the goal should be to be great in 2019 with a sustainable long term roster. 2016-17 be damned
Posted on 5/21/16 at 1:02 pm to Crewz
Because Loomising. Wasn't it you who said part of the reasoning in hiring Gentry was because the team would play an entertaining brand of basketball, implying winning wasn't the top priority with the hire.
Posted on 5/21/16 at 3:26 pm to TigerinATL
I didn't say we would do it. Just that the theory that it can't be done is wrong IMO
Posted on 5/21/16 at 3:38 pm to corndeaux
to make it work they'd probably have to take asik at minimum
that right there has my full attention
both Boston and Philadelphia are in the very unique position of owning 24 carat draft picks and desirable players. You don't see that very often
somebody (Sacramento? Indiana?) with a superstar has got to be thinking about it
that right there has my full attention
both Boston and Philadelphia are in the very unique position of owning 24 carat draft picks and desirable players. You don't see that very often
somebody (Sacramento? Indiana?) with a superstar has got to be thinking about it
Posted on 5/21/16 at 3:40 pm to cgrand
Danny ainge's trigger finger is probably thrombosiing right now
Posted on 5/22/16 at 7:23 am to Crewz
quote:
Why couldn't you do both?
You could do both. IMO, it's incredibly unwise and highly unlikely to work at this point, but anything is possible.
quote:
Say you blow it up and win 30 games next year with Davis. Then, 40. Then 47, then 55
I mean that could happen. But, again, it is highly improbable. A team with #6, 2017 first (which will most likely not be high enough to get them a foundational piece), Davis, and role players is going to follow that trajectory? Aren't we in a thread created, in part, to temper rookie expectations?
AND they have to bank on Davis being cool with them dumping all his teammates/friends (after they dumped his coach) to be bad for a couple of years in the hope that it pays off 3 years from now and he gets back to the playoffs.
What you're proposing is Thunder type trajectory. The Pels have their Durant, but if they want that type of improvement, they need their Jeff Green, Westbrook, Harden, and Ibaka. Finding one or two guys like that is possible, if unlikely. That type of total talent influx is impossible given the Pels assets.
quote:
the goal should be to be great in 2019 with a sustainable long term roster. 2016-17 be damned
I agree 100%. But I don't think you can get there by dumping the roster around Davis. The return is not worth the risk.
Be patient and smart this summer. No more dumb contracts or selling off lottery picks. I do believe they can be back in the playoff picture w/ just decent Ryno/Gordon replacements (Courtney Lee/Marvin Williams?) and health from Davis/Holiday. That happens, they can get some "team on the rise" buzz again. There is a lot of time left to build a winner around Davis, but the time for doing it via high draft picks has passed.
This post was edited on 5/22/16 at 8:09 am
Posted on 5/22/16 at 8:45 am to corndeaux
I would say the better path is to clear everything but Jrue, QPon, and AD. Give the rookie and guys like Frazier, Ennis, etc burn this year. Then, get another good pick next year AND attack free agency with 50 mil in cap room, signing Jrue afterwards with bird rights.
That's how, in my mind, you can get on that trajectory. But you would have to nail the two picks, and have people agree to sign with you in 2017. Agree, not a given, but it has the highest possible payoff if executed IMO.
That's how, in my mind, you can get on that trajectory. But you would have to nail the two picks, and have people agree to sign with you in 2017. Agree, not a given, but it has the highest possible payoff if executed IMO.
Posted on 5/22/16 at 8:48 am to Crewz
And again, I don't think the team will ever do that. They won't use a stretch provision or amnesty on Asik any time in the next 2 years, but I am just saying that is what I would do if I won powerball and bought this team, along with a chain of Five Guys Burgers and Fries
Posted on 5/22/16 at 9:20 am to Crewz
That makes sense. The main difference here: when I read "blow up" here and in the Mackel thread, I was under the impression everyone was going except Davis.
I do think they should sign some 2nd/3rd tier help this summer. Nothing that eats up huge chunks of cap space. Still give Frazier, Ennis, etc plenty of run, but don't put it all on them. They just need more NBA level players and more on court flexibility.
I don't think you can come off 2 30 wins seasons and be a FA player in NO. Maybe going Hawks route with shorter, smaller contracts on unheralded guys? Of course, Davis is so good that if you give him just some help, he's pulling you out of high lottery contention.
I do think they should sign some 2nd/3rd tier help this summer. Nothing that eats up huge chunks of cap space. Still give Frazier, Ennis, etc plenty of run, but don't put it all on them. They just need more NBA level players and more on court flexibility.
I don't think you can come off 2 30 wins seasons and be a FA player in NO. Maybe going Hawks route with shorter, smaller contracts on unheralded guys? Of course, Davis is so good that if you give him just some help, he's pulling you out of high lottery contention.
Posted on 5/22/16 at 9:50 am to corndeaux
Personally, I don't think a team with a pissed off AD and a contract motivated Jrue is gonna win 36 or fewer games next year - I don't care who the other 10 are
But yeah, getting high level FA will be hard. But if you got guys like the terrible Knicks did with Lopez and Afflalo plus really hit on your 16 and 17 picks, you could be really good by 19
But yeah, getting high level FA will be hard. But if you got guys like the terrible Knicks did with Lopez and Afflalo plus really hit on your 16 and 17 picks, you could be really good by 19
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