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Posted on 10/1/15 at 1:53 pm to graychef
quote:
That's great and all. But the penalties called last Saturday fall squarely on the shoulders of the team.
I'm curious as to how you would make that judgment.
Yes, when a flag was thrown, you looked at the replay and said. "Oh yes that's a penalty."
For instance, when Pocic was called for holding, you saw his arm out and said, I see it. But you wouldn't see Syracuse holding on plays that were not called.
LSU was called for hitting a player out of bounds.
When SU did it, it was not called.
We're told that the reason for penalties is players being out of position, lack of discipline, etc.
But LSU is more penalized than other teams even when they play inferior opponents.
The truth is that no one wants to believe that referees cheat. If you believed that, it would be more difficult to watch the game, to anticipate future ones etc. But it does happen.
Posted on 10/1/15 at 1:55 pm to EffYouSeeKay
Nvm, def an interesting read.
This post was edited on 10/1/15 at 1:56 pm
Posted on 10/1/15 at 1:56 pm to ndtiger
[quote Okay.............so what is the motive?[/quote]
When you see a schedule listed for a game and that number like (-7) for one team. That's the point $pread.
When you see a schedule listed for a game and that number like (-7) for one team. That's the point $pread.
Posted on 10/1/15 at 2:00 pm to crescentcity
we would need a lot of data, but having some drinks during that game, I start thinking... Are these dudes trying to point shave? Then I thought, nah just a couple of bullshite flags.
Posted on 10/1/15 at 2:01 pm to crescentcity
(no message)
This post was edited on 3/16/21 at 9:35 am
Posted on 10/1/15 at 2:04 pm to graychef
quote:
The average SEC ref flags LSU 6.86 times for 56.63 yards, and has a penalty margin of 1.77-15.51. That's, as we've established above, the worst in the SEC. Ritter seemed to take that as a challenge and he flags LSU an average of 10.14 times for 81.86 yards at a ridiculous margin of 5.29-38.00.
If you remove Ritter from LSU's averages, LSU gets flagged 6.06 times per game for 49.86 yards at a margin of 1.00 times for 10.89. Still a bad ratio, but it lops off nearly five yards of penalty yard margin from LSU's average. Nearly a third of LSU's penalty margin comes from the games Ritter officiates.
I think this proves bias. Not that he consciously is doing it, but bias none the less.
Bama was 10th last season in margin. They get less penalties, but so do their opponents, except LSU. So again this doesn't prove that Les has more undisciplined teams, we just get flagged more than the opponent that day.
This post was edited on 10/1/15 at 2:09 pm
Posted on 10/1/15 at 2:15 pm to dgnx6
quote:
Just go watch the UTK UF game
Who is UTK?
If you mean Tennessee, they definitely F'ed up UT at the end with the clock stopping then running because the ref gave conflicting signals.
Posted on 10/1/15 at 2:20 pm to ndtiger
quote:
Okay.............so what is the motive?
I don't think there is enough there to claim some kind of motive. Certainly, I think you can make a claim for unintentional bias. The SEC officiating offices are located in Birmingham, AL, and the head of officials is an Alabama guy. If nothing else, the SEC could be accused of allowing an obvious conflict of interest.
Posted on 10/1/15 at 2:25 pm to jrodLSUke
Who's in on the "Anybody but Ritter!" Chant?
Posted on 10/1/15 at 2:33 pm to graychef
Chef that call was either right or wrong it was too close for second guessing,I saw him onsides I have good eyes !
Posted on 10/1/15 at 2:45 pm to dgnx6
Ritter and his crew are dirty as it gets, especially when calling and LSU vs Auburn or LSU vs Bama game. They will never miss a chance if the game is tight to affect the outcome. Its not just how many calls, how many yards, its when do they call the penalty. It will always be at the opportune time.
Posted on 10/1/15 at 2:55 pm to dgnx6
I wish they would breakdown the objective penalties(off sides, illegal formation etc) vs the subjective penalties(holding, PI) and base the differential on subjective penalties only.
Posted on 10/1/15 at 2:59 pm to Hiphopanonymous
quote:
Patrick Peterson's foot was inbounds.
Jesus christ. Yes, that was a blown call. I'm sure you also saw the 80+yard touchdown run called back and still think Dural was lined up properly.
Posted on 10/1/15 at 3:18 pm to EffYouSeeKay
I didn't walk away from the article with the same takeaways that the author did.
The author seems fixated with comparing LSU's penalties to Bama and the other schools, in order to prove or disprove an officiating bias through the lens of the rest of the SEC and Bama, in particular.
That doesn't disprove or discredit the hard data that:
1. Ritter's crew flag LSU at a greater rate than other teams.
2. Ritter's crew works more LSU games than any other crew.
This is not just about the Bama game. This is about Ritter.
The author's narrative at the conclusion is focused on the wrong topic.
No, we can drum Tom Ritter out of the SEC for disproportionately flagging LSU for some unknown reason. ASK WHY. Bama is irrelevant to this discussion.
Ritter is a direct cause of this.
We don't need it to be a league-wide conspiracy. We need our questions to focus on RITTER.
WRONG. That's not the only thing we can do. We can have Ritter investigated.
The more general LSU makes its argument, the weaker it is. The more targeted we make it, the stronger it is.
The data shows Ritter flags LSU at an absurdly high rate. The data shows we pull Ritter's crew more than any other crew.
Ask why. FRAME the argument around Ritter.
One last thing: do you think Bama would put up with this shite? Do you think they wouldn't ask questions about a specific ref? Why are we so eager to run up the white flag and say we can't do anything about it?
The author seems fixated with comparing LSU's penalties to Bama and the other schools, in order to prove or disprove an officiating bias through the lens of the rest of the SEC and Bama, in particular.
That doesn't disprove or discredit the hard data that:
1. Ritter's crew flag LSU at a greater rate than other teams.
2. Ritter's crew works more LSU games than any other crew.
This is not just about the Bama game. This is about Ritter.
The author's narrative at the conclusion is focused on the wrong topic.
quote:
Unfortunately, this means we can't drum Tom Ritter out of the SEC for being a dirty cheater who is helping out Alabama.
No, we can drum Tom Ritter out of the SEC for disproportionately flagging LSU for some unknown reason. ASK WHY. Bama is irrelevant to this discussion.
quote:
However, LSU fans are correct when they complain that the refs throw more flags against LSU than their opponents, and its worse for LSU than any team in the SEC.
Ritter is a direct cause of this.
quote:
Now, it is up to you to decide whether that margin is legitimate or the product of unconscious bias. It is not, however, the product of a league wide conspiracy.
We don't need it to be a league-wide conspiracy. We need our questions to focus on RITTER.
quote:
Really, the only thing LSU can do to stem the penalty tide is to somehow eliminate all unconscious bias against the Tigers as an undisciplined team who commits too many penalties. Good luck fighting that narrative.
WRONG. That's not the only thing we can do. We can have Ritter investigated.
The more general LSU makes its argument, the weaker it is. The more targeted we make it, the stronger it is.
The data shows Ritter flags LSU at an absurdly high rate. The data shows we pull Ritter's crew more than any other crew.
Ask why. FRAME the argument around Ritter.
One last thing: do you think Bama would put up with this shite? Do you think they wouldn't ask questions about a specific ref? Why are we so eager to run up the white flag and say we can't do anything about it?
This post was edited on 10/1/15 at 3:20 pm
Posted on 10/1/15 at 3:22 pm to jrodLSUke
quote:
I don't think there is enough there to claim some kind of motive. Certainly, I think you can make a claim for unintentional bias
It's not up to us to claim motive. It's up to us to present evidence. Ask Ritter what his motive is for flagging LSU a shite ton more than anyone else.
Why should we attempt to know his mind? Has anyone thought to question him?
Posted on 10/1/15 at 4:44 pm to SpqrTiger
I would be curious to see the spreads of those games over the same period of time. I do not believe this is a bias against a single team however point shaving could be a possibility. I find it interesting that Bama AND LSU are power running teams that are often favored and their offense can GREATLY effected by an ill timed penalty which ritter seems to like to throw against both of these teams based on the data. Not in a way that loses the game but in a way that in say a 24 point spread may cause the game to be closer on the scoreboard.
This post was edited on 10/1/15 at 4:46 pm
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