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re: Daredevil: Official Discussion Thread (Season 1; spoilers included)
Posted on 4/20/15 at 11:25 pm to CGSC Lobotomy
Posted on 4/20/15 at 11:25 pm to CGSC Lobotomy
quote:
If you're saying that there was no reason for it...Fisk ended up with the territory of the boss who was killed in the bowling alley, expanding his empire.
No the plothole is with the gun. My two questions are this (and maybe you can come up with an explanation)
1) Why the hell was the gun not ever talked about in the police report. If the bowling alley girl saw the altercation, she would see him with a gun, which would certainly change the self defense circumstances and the ability for him to get off
2) if you can explain how she did not see it, or why there is no video camera in a bowling alley to show it....then why did he bring a gun in the first place? He certainly did not plan on it jamming, so one could assume that he planned on just shooting the guy. So if the gun didn't jam, how would he have explained the self defense needed for him to pull a gun out? And he had a spot prepared beforehand to hide the gun, why would he plan to hide the gun if he originally planned to shoot the guy? Either he has one hell of a foresight or the whole gun part didn't really make much sense
Posted on 4/21/15 at 1:10 am to wildtigercat93
She knew who the victim was and that if she said too much she was dead.
Posted on 4/21/15 at 1:14 am to CGSC Lobotomy
quote:
She knew who the victim was and that if she said too much she was dead.
Okay...so what was their explanation going to be for the bullet wound that the gun would create, if it weren't a shitty gun that jammed?
Posted on 4/21/15 at 1:21 am to wildtigercat93
quote:
Why the hell was the gun not ever talked about in the police report. If the bowling alley girl saw the altercation, she would see him with a gun, which would certainly change the self defense circumstances and the ability for him to get off
It was said that she didn't see the beginning but was in the back and came in during the middle of the altercation (which is also why she doesn't peg the ginger as the aggressor)
quote:
why there is no video camera in a bowling alley to show it
It was a dirty bowling alley. If it had a video camera it'd be more likely to self-incriminate than exonerate
Also the chick says that the guy bowling "has an arrangement with the owner" so if you don't buy that the bowling alley doesn't have video surveillance during the day part of the arrangement could be no surveillance cameras
quote:
he has one hell of a foresight
They made a point to say it "wasn't his first rodeo" so he is an experienced criminal that 1) doesn't panic under pressure as evidenced by the quick recovery after his gun jams and 2) might have pulled this move before or 3) Fisk/Wesley told the ginger where to plant the gun if things went to shite since Wesley seems to know where the gun is without talking to the ginger
Anyways, people like you should probably just not watch movies/TV shows if you're unwilling to suspend belief in the slightest. The vast majority of people watch movies/TV shows to escape from reality, not to overanalyis and force it upon fictional universes.
So quit trying to poke holes in our entertainment. Its annoying having to hold your hand and explain why you're wrong
This post was edited on 4/21/15 at 1:32 am
Posted on 4/21/15 at 3:27 am to Cockopotamus
quote:
Anyways, people like you should probably just not watch movies/TV shows if you're unwilling to suspend belief in the slightest. The vast majority of people watch movies/TV shows to escape from reality, not to overanalyis and force it upon fictional universes.
Im glad im not like this in TV Shows/Movies.
I always find it funny when people nit pick over the smallest details. Yet they are watching a show about a blind guy that sees in flames and can smell cologne from 3 floors up
Posted on 4/21/15 at 4:41 am to LSUTil_iDie
Just finished the first season. Loved it
Posted on 4/21/15 at 8:47 am to Supravol22
Just finished the last episode. Freaking great show.
The only thing that really bothered me was Foggy being such a little bitch when he found out about Matt being the Mask. I don't get his reaction at all. I see why the writers did it (so he could reconnect with the bitch lawyer in a rage frick and then have her dig up dirt on Fisk), but I didn't understand his reaction from a human standpoint. I don't think I'd react the same, but we're all different I suppose.
The grit of this show has me super pumped. I just don't know how he's gonna translate into the less edgy film branch of the MCU.
Also, that costume is badass.
The only thing that really bothered me was Foggy being such a little bitch when he found out about Matt being the Mask. I don't get his reaction at all. I see why the writers did it (so he could reconnect with the bitch lawyer in a rage frick and then have her dig up dirt on Fisk), but I didn't understand his reaction from a human standpoint. I don't think I'd react the same, but we're all different I suppose.
The grit of this show has me super pumped. I just don't know how he's gonna translate into the less edgy film branch of the MCU.
Also, that costume is badass.
Posted on 4/21/15 at 9:03 am to wildtigercat93
quote:
wildtigercat93
So you are one of THOSE that nitpicks every little thing of every show/movie. Got it. You do realize that plot holes exists in 100% of stories, right? That's because in order to tell a structured story, the story teller needs to put his pieces into specific places. Sometimes this requires leaving some things out or just creating small plot holes that don't effect the overall story. The things you point to are so insignificant that it's foolish to even complain about.
And you say the acting is bad? Are you serious? You're just a NegaNancy looking to bash for the sake of bashing.
Posted on 4/21/15 at 9:19 am to Wanderin Reb
quote:
The only thing that really bothered me was Foggy being such a little bitch when he found out about Matt being the Mask. I don't get his reaction at all. I see why the writers did it (so he could reconnect with the bitch lawyer in a rage frick and then have her dig up dirt on Fisk), but I didn't understand his reaction from a human standpoint. I don't think I'd react the same, but we're all different I suppose.
in the books, Foggy is quite an emotional guy. he and matt have their moments. the reasoning for his acting this way is that he felt betrayed by his best friend. in his mind, they shared everything together, and this hurt him in feeling that Matt was lying to him and keeping such a huge secret. plus it made matt seem hypocritical, since he always was a strong proponent of the rule of law. vigilantism and strong belief in the legal system are mutually exclusive, and this effected Foggy.
Posted on 4/21/15 at 9:39 am to Cockopotamus
quote:
So quit trying to poke holes in our entertainment. Its annoying having to hold your hand and explain why you're wrong
It's my entertainment to, and you have yet to do the latter
Is it against the rules to not completely cock gobble the show here or something? Damn people
For the record I do like the show for what I've seen. It's just not perfect as most are claiming it to be and I'm not 100 percent sold on it. I didn't know that was a crime
This post was edited on 4/21/15 at 9:42 am
Posted on 4/21/15 at 9:55 am to wildtigercat93
It didn't matter if he shot him. They trial was supposed to be fixed from the start. I assumed hiding the gun was something he did on the fly since it would look bad if it was on him. As far as Wesley knowing where it was, half of the cops are paid off. It wouldn't be difficult for that info to be passed on.
Or this.
quote:
His plan was not to get caught,
Or this.
This post was edited on 4/21/15 at 9:57 am
Posted on 4/21/15 at 9:55 am to wildtigercat93
quote:
No the plothole is with the gun. My two questions are this (and maybe you can come up with an explanation)
1) Why the hell was the gun not ever talked about in the police report. If the bowling alley girl saw the altercation, she would see him with a gun, which would certainly change the self defense circumstances and the ability for him to get off
2) if you can explain how she did not see it, or why there is no video camera in a bowling alley to show it....then why did he bring a gun in the first place? He certainly did not plan on it jamming, so one could assume that he planned on just shooting the guy. So if the gun didn't jam, how would he have explained the self defense needed for him to pull a gun out? And he had a spot prepared beforehand to hide the gun, why would he plan to hide the gun if he originally planned to shoot the guy? Either he has one hell of a foresight or the whole gun part didn't really make much sense
Those aren't plot holes. I'm sorry, but they aren't. It's one of mypet peeves when people invent absurd nitpicks and then try and call them plot holes. Those aren't even plot points, much less holes. But let's answer both questions, since it seems you need answers.
1) The gun is not mentioned because no one tells the police about it. The gun is never fired, so there's no casing to find or bullet hole for the cops to discover. Also, there's no evidence that the girl at the counter saw the criminal pull the gun. You get a shot of her looking at the end of the fight, but not during it. For all you know, she's hiding under the counter like a normal person.
Also, she doesn't testify in a way to incriminate the assassin. If she saw the whole fight, she could just tell the whole story of what happened as a witness, and the gun is irrelevant. Instead, she stays quiet, and does not testify. We don't need a hug leap of logic to figure out why. But if she was gonna blab about the gun, she'd blab about the WHOLE FIGHT.
Then, Wesley finds the gun and destroys it before the cops do. It should also be noted that the cops are later shown to be on Fisk's payroll. So even if they did find the gun, they would try to destroy the evidence.
2) It likely doesn't have a video camera. It's an f'n bowling alley. How many bowling alleys have cameras set up on the lanes to prevent people from stealing the balls or whatever? Outside? Ok. But why is it assumed a small business would install cameras to do... what, exactly? There's no inventory there to steal. If you had video cameras, it would be by the snack bar, the doors, and/or the registers. Not the lanes. You've just invented something as an obstacle that's not a real obstacle. Maybe they just don't have the money to buy a camera. Or, like a lot of places, they just have a camera and no tape/computer?
The assassin was hoping to come in, shoot the guy, and leave. His plan was not to get caught, as evidenced by a later conversation between Fisk and Wesley, in which they discuss murdering him in his cell. Getting caught and pleading self-defense was not the plan. It was a contingency.
Posted on 4/21/15 at 10:06 am to Baloo
Hey, that was all I was asking for. I didn't mean to ruffle feathers in here
Posted on 4/21/15 at 10:07 am to Midget Death Squad
are hardcore DD fans upset about them killing Ben?
I expected him to die when he first appeared, but then looked up his history and saw he was actually a key figure in the comics, so killing him seems odd.
I expected him to die when he first appeared, but then looked up his history and saw he was actually a key figure in the comics, so killing him seems odd.
Posted on 4/21/15 at 10:14 am to BilJ
I'm not upset, but I feel it's a tad short-sighted. Ben is a great character to use as an exposition delivery machine. He's a reporter, so he would know things, and he's a vehicle by which the writers could tell the audience things we need to know. And given that he works at the Bugle, or whatever they called his paper, he could have popped up in the other series. He would have made a decent connective tissue.
But I'm not that emotionally attached to him.
But I'm not that emotionally attached to him.
Posted on 4/21/15 at 10:28 am to LSUTil_iDie
I really liked Daredevil and left me wanting more and wishing it were a longer season than 13 episodes.
I liked the Veronica Mars Neo Noir style cinematography with the lit backgrounds and dark foregrounds.
Fighting and action sequences were very well produced and very graphic in nature. I liked the non-vocal music score that went along with them.
Vincent D'Onofrio I thought was brilliant. Really had me believing he was the Kingpin. The chick playing Karen Page is hot. But her and Foggy's side stories seem repetitive but that's a minor complaint.
If you like your gritty crime drama with comicbook plotting. Then Daredevil is the show for you.
I liked the Veronica Mars Neo Noir style cinematography with the lit backgrounds and dark foregrounds.
Fighting and action sequences were very well produced and very graphic in nature. I liked the non-vocal music score that went along with them.
Vincent D'Onofrio I thought was brilliant. Really had me believing he was the Kingpin. The chick playing Karen Page is hot. But her and Foggy's side stories seem repetitive but that's a minor complaint.
If you like your gritty crime drama with comicbook plotting. Then Daredevil is the show for you.
This post was edited on 4/21/15 at 10:32 am
Posted on 4/21/15 at 10:37 am to Baloo
Having a newspaper reporter seems kind of weird in today's world
I was thinking they should've made him a more modern reporter. But I don't know anything about his comic book profile
I was thinking they should've made him a more modern reporter. But I don't know anything about his comic book profile
Posted on 4/21/15 at 10:57 am to wildtigercat93
Well that was kind of a big part of his character arc. He was struggling with being in a dying profession. Are you sure you watch this show?
Posted on 4/21/15 at 11:06 am to illuminatic
I know that, but it seems like a storyline that would grow stale quickly. It's not like he's going to ever win that battle (and he clearly didn't)
I'm just saying he would be more vital long term if he weren't stuck in the stereotypical "I'm too old for this stuff" reporter role. But he's not so he's dead
I'm just saying he would be more vital long term if he weren't stuck in the stereotypical "I'm too old for this stuff" reporter role. But he's not so he's dead
Posted on 4/21/15 at 11:17 am to BilJ
quote:
I expected him to die when he first appeared, but then looked up his history and saw he was actually a key figure in the comics, so killing him seems odd.
I didn't read DD comics, but yeah, looking at his wiki page, that was definitely a surprising move. I guess one way to not have character glut going forward is to purge a few every so often.
John Wesley was another somewhat surprising death. I feel like if this were a network show, he would have been extended due to fan reaction. Just a good character, IMO.
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